Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Cancer, Diabetes, Osteoporosis etc.
djkvan
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by djkvan »

RRM wrote:Do you mean that 20% of people with Celiac have osteoporosis,
Yes, so statistically less significant than the other way around, but significant nonetheless.

The 97% percent stat appears on various sites, and I agree that it is a suspiciously precise number for an undiagnosed anything. Perhaps it a a politically motivated number generated by the various celiac organizations in an effort to lobby for more government funding. I dunno. As stated the National Institute of Health (American) is one source of the 97% stat. From: http://canweeatthat.typepad.com/blog/20 ... -test.html

"Celiac disease impacts one out of every 133 people in the United States," said Senator Huff. "It's estimated that 97% of cases go undiagnosed and the average delay in diagnosis is nine years. This is a clear indication that we must do what we can to raise awareness."
RRM wrote:The sentence i was referring to is about osteoporosis and wheat consumption.
"might in fact be due to" does not suggest correlation, but causation.
I was merely speculating on a hypothesis.

To bring the discussion to a different level I found this at http://alwayswellwithin.com/2011/04/12/ ... it-be-you/:

“EnteroLab is a registered and fully accredited clinical laboratory specializing in the analysis of intestinal specimens for food sensitivities (reactions by the immune system to common proteins in the diet) that cause a variety of symptoms and diseases. One particular area of our focus relates to intestinal conditions caused by immune reactivity to a protein called gluten which is found in wheat, barley, rye, and oats. Recent research in our laboratory indicates that immune sensitivity to gluten is exceedingly common, present in 30-40% of all Americans. Although these reactions can cause malnutrition, growth failure in children, osteoporosis, many autoimmune diseases (including colitis, diabetes, arthritis, and many others), most of the affected individuals are unaware they have it because there have been no sensitive tests capable of diagnosis.”


I interpret the self-underlined passage to be referring to the tests done by the greater medical community, not those of private labs. I have read that negative blood tests for celiac are more



I am suspicious of this statistic as the lab in question would be a for-profit organization, but seeing as grain consumption is a relatively new human behaviour (likely began in earnest around 9300 B.C.E.) I wouldn't be surprised if the phenomenon is but another example of the human species' cultural evolution outpacing its biological evolution. Again, this 30-40% stat is tossed around by many sites and may be profit-motivated or the product of mass-hysteria, but gluten is a storage protein, so...

The so-called gold-standard blood tests for celiac disease are largely ineffective, with biopsy of the small intestine/DNA testing being the most accurate method of CD diagnosis. These testing methods are largely ignored, however, especially when standard blood tests come back negative.

Again, secondary causes of celiac include dairy consumption as the n-terminal of the casein protein is identical to that of gliadin. Re: dairy, osteoporosis, and excessive calcium in the diet: only 30% of the calcium in processed dairy products (i.e. any dairy products as they are all processed by pasteurization in North America) is available for absorption, not exactly a flood of calcium that the body cannot adjust for.
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RRM
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

djkvan wrote:
RRM wrote:Do you mean that 20% of people with Celiac have osteoporosis,
Yes, so statistically less significant than the other way around, but significant nonetheless.
Are you saying that of people diagnosed with osteoporosis, more than 20% also have Celiac?
djkvan
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by djkvan »

If roughly 3% of Americans have osteoporosis, so ten million

with another 44 million exhibiting early symptoms

and 1% of Americans have celiac (I have read that the number of undiagnosed cases of celiac cases may be as high as one in 30), so three million

and 20% of those 100 celiacs suffer from osteoporosis as a direct result, so 600,000

then 600,000 of the 10 million osteoporosis cases are caused directly by celiac or 6%. A statistically small number, but not insignificant.

Now if the actual figure of celiac cases should in fact be one in 30 Americans, then the percentage of osteoporosis cases caused by celiac would balloon to roughly 18%.

Furthermore, if the estimates of 30-40% of Americans actually having gluten intolerance were true, with nutrient malabsorption being a potential consequence of food intolerances due to intestinal inflammation, then the potential number of osteoporosis cases originating due to wheat/grain consumption could even be as high as, well take your guess. I have found no figures that state definitively what percentage of people with food intolerance will develop malabsorption issues.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

Conclusion: Celiac cannot possibly be the main cause of osteoporosis.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by djkvan »

False.
There is no way at this point to prove that it could be one of the main causes. But it might be. Your Wai book observations on osteoporosis are merely correlative speculation as well.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

djkvan wrote:
RRM wrote:Conclusion: Celiac cannot possibly be the main cause of osteoporosis.
There is no way at this point to prove that it could be one of the main causes. But it might be.
If Celiac was THE main cause of osteoporosis, the statistical correlation would be significantly higher.
Your Wai book observations on osteoporosis are merely correlative speculation as well.
The statistical correlation between milk consumption and osteoporotic fracture incidence is much greater.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by djkvan »

Again, celiacs can have a secondary reaction to milk with the same effects, the absorption rate of calcium from dairy is nowhere near what you would have us believe, and with this statement:
RRM wrote: If Celiac was THE main cause of osteoporosis, the statistical correlation would be significantly higher.
you have made the jump from speculating on a correlation to implying fact, just as you had accused me of doing earlier in the thread.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

the absorption rate of calcium from dairy is nowhere near what you would have us believe
The absorption rate is big enough to have the following effect:
In all high milk consuming countries, average bone mineral density is greatest too.
djkvan wrote:
RRM wrote: If Celiac was THE main cause of osteoporosis, the statistical correlation would be significantly higher.
you have made the jump from speculating on a correlation to implying fact, just as you had accused me of doing earlier in the thread.
Im actually denying 'the fact' based on a lack of correlation.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by djkvan »

RRM wrote:In all high milk consuming countries, average bone mineral density is greatest too.
Try cross-referencing the statistic to include for countries where wheat/cereal grains is a staple food
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

djkvan wrote:
RRM wrote:In all high milk consuming countries, average bone mineral density is greatest too.
Try cross-referencing the statistic to include for countries where wheat/cereal grains is a staple food
Im guessing that you dont mean regarding average bone mineral density, but regarding osteoporotic fracture incidence, right?

doing so, it appears that wheat is the primary food staple in North Africa and the Middle East,
where osteoporotic fracture incidence is relatively low, except for Kuwait (with high milk intakes).
Also, it seems that for nearly 100 years, per capita wheat consumption has declined in the United States,
whereas osteoporotic fracture rates have increased.
So, i have to disappoint you....
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by dime »

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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

Health conscious women may take more supplements, milk products and leavy green veggies...
This study reviewed 38 studies addressing the effects of calcium on bone, cancers, cardiovascular outcomes and mortality:

"The evidence that Ca supplementation reduces fracture incidence is scarce and inconsistent."
"There was no overall effect of Ca intake on cancers"
"no consistent association between cardiovascular outcomes and Ca intake except for blood pressure"
"Reviewed studies did not show consistent evidence relating Ca intake to mortality"

Uusi-Rasi K et al
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dime
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by dime »

This is interesting (not related to acid/base balance though):

Fat in Organs and Blood May Increase Risk of Osteoporosis
people with more liver and muscle fat had higher levels of fat in their bone marrow, independent of body mass index, age and exercise status. HDL cholesterol, the "good" type of cholesterol that is associated with a lower risk of heart disease, was inversely associated with bone marrow fat content.

Higher levels of bone marrow fat put people at increased risk of fracture, according to Dr. Bredella.

"Bone marrow fat makes bones weak," she said. "If you have a spine that's filled with fat, it's not going to be as strong."

Triglycerides, the type of fat found in the blood, also had a positive correlation with bone marrow fat, possibly because they stimulate osteoclasts, a type of cell that breaks up bone tissue.
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by RRM »

In the last stages of osteoporosis the bones are weaker, but osteoporosis is not linearly about the strength of bones.
Your bones may be relatively weak due to a lack of physical activity for example, but that is a momentary situation,
not a bone health indicator.
That's because its easily reversed; physical exercise increases strength of weak bones.
Equally so, much fat in your spine will affect its strength, but there is no indication that it affects bone health.
The osteoclasts just make room for the fat to be stored. When the fat is removed, osteoblasts will fill the holes.
Similarly, weak muscles are not a good indicator of muscle health.
They may be weak, but perfectly healthy.
The same goes for your bones.
The disease osteoporosis is about the (remaining) capacity of osteoblasts to replicate, and replace lost / damaged bone.
If the capacity to repair damaged bone has decreased, then your bone health has deteriorated.
dime
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Re: Osteoporosis and Acid/base balance

Post by dime »

Agree, that makes a lot of sense.
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