Cancer & Prior Treatment
-
Aytundra
- Posts: 1718
- https://cutt.ly/meble-kuchenne-wroclaw
- Joined: Sun 26 Feb 2012 18:33
- Contact:
Cancer & Prior Treatment
What happens if a cancer patient cuts out junk food prior to cancer treatment?
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Define junk food.
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Junk food =
1. Items with matter that are not biologically processable by cells naturally.
2. Items with matter that are not biologically synthesizeable by cells naturally.
3. Items with matter that disrupt the integrity of DNA in cells, and causing disorders of cellular processes.
---
1. Items with matter that are not biologically processable by cells naturally.
2. Items with matter that are not biologically synthesizeable by cells naturally.
3. Items with matter that disrupt the integrity of DNA in cells, and causing disorders of cellular processes.
---
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
I would guess that that person cuts out the cancer aggravating substances. If that would be combined with the intake of healthy food (Wai), then the circumstances would be improved quite a lot. Of course cancer treatment is harsh, so I'd say the more time between the food switch and the treatment, the better.
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Cancer Treatment does appear to be a harsh approach, the theory is to kill bad cells. But if something like the Wai diet is all about not eating any life threatening substances. Then the Wai diet is basically about promoting life. If that is the case, 0) Would this diet be suitable for someone with cancer?; as it might promote cancer cell growth as cancer cells are cells too, like any other cells.
A few questions:
1) Once the cancer aggravating substances are removed would eating healthy foods aggravate the cancer?
2) Would some healthy foods aggravate cancer?
3)* Would some healthy foods aggravate cancer during cancer treatment?
4)* For example, a food with high vitamin A content could nearly equate to supplement portions of vitamin A, like eating a lot of carrots, that would probably not be good during cancer treatment.
5)* Would antioxidants accumulate before cancer treatment and cause decrease the effectiveness of cancer treatment.
*To put my questions into perspective:
I was in a lecture room one day, and the dietician was showing slides of what to eat and what not to eat during cancer treatment.
- The dietician began with the food guide, saying to eat moderate amounts of fruits, veggies, grains, meat, dairy.
- To the audience she asked "Did you know you are suppose to eat 8 to 10 servings of fruit a day?"
- Fruits and vegetables, It's not a lot, half a cup of juice is a serving.
- have some dairy, calcium is good for bones, and milk is good to replenish nutrients, milk any milk, almond milk, it counts for liquids, like yogurt, I know kefir is appearing on the shelf right beside the yogurt these days, kefir is also good, cheese too.
- It is important during chemo to consume over 1 liter per day, like water, milk, tea, juice.
- caffine, coffee and tea is fine, drink liquids like soups if you can't eat.
- alcohol there is no safe amount, but at a reunion or anniversary or someone's birthday a small sip is fine.
- Oils, olive oils is good.
- Herbs and spices use as normal
- I know that the current fad is making foods with coconut oil.
- But it has not been shown to be better, it might actually be bad.
- People eat big servings of steaks and foods [shaping the air between her hands to plate sized steaks of meat] is also bad.
- Did you know you are only suppose to have small portions of meat like the size of a computer mouse or the size of your palm.
- And eat small portions of meat, or fish like salmon. [waving her hand to her palms to indicate small serving in emphasis.]
- sugar, not too much.
- Do not take other medicines or alternative medicines or items other than those prescribed.
- What ever they say about blueberries, coEnzyme Q10 and herbal products, and all those supplements.
- Do not take supplements while on chemo, like Vitamin A, C, E.
- Multivitamins are okay.
Then it got interesting when the discussion started:
-- A person raised a hand and asked "How much is too much sugar?"
- The dietician looked at the person and said "not more than your regular intake."
-- In which the person never looked up from the binder, but searched the food guide,
- and the dietician said "there is no limit on sugar listed in the food guide."
-- Another person asked "Why is Vitamin A, C, E supplements not allowed? You encouraged higher fruit and veggie intake? Are we not suppose to eat fruits and veggies during chemo?"
- That is a good question. Supplements can be too high in antioxidants.
- In cancer treatment, the free radicals are released to attack the cancer cells.
- Taking supplements reduce the number of free radicals.
- Things like supplements are high doses of antioxidants that would reduce the free radicals available to kill cancer cells.
- We are only talking about not eating supplements.
- Fruits and vegetables are fine, we want you to eat enough servings of fruits and vegetables, they are not too much because supplements are high doses of 1 vitamin.
A few questions:
1) Once the cancer aggravating substances are removed would eating healthy foods aggravate the cancer?
2) Would some healthy foods aggravate cancer?
3)* Would some healthy foods aggravate cancer during cancer treatment?
4)* For example, a food with high vitamin A content could nearly equate to supplement portions of vitamin A, like eating a lot of carrots, that would probably not be good during cancer treatment.
5)* Would antioxidants accumulate before cancer treatment and cause decrease the effectiveness of cancer treatment.
*To put my questions into perspective:
I was in a lecture room one day, and the dietician was showing slides of what to eat and what not to eat during cancer treatment.
- The dietician began with the food guide, saying to eat moderate amounts of fruits, veggies, grains, meat, dairy.
- To the audience she asked "Did you know you are suppose to eat 8 to 10 servings of fruit a day?"
- Fruits and vegetables, It's not a lot, half a cup of juice is a serving.
- have some dairy, calcium is good for bones, and milk is good to replenish nutrients, milk any milk, almond milk, it counts for liquids, like yogurt, I know kefir is appearing on the shelf right beside the yogurt these days, kefir is also good, cheese too.
- It is important during chemo to consume over 1 liter per day, like water, milk, tea, juice.
- caffine, coffee and tea is fine, drink liquids like soups if you can't eat.
- alcohol there is no safe amount, but at a reunion or anniversary or someone's birthday a small sip is fine.
- Oils, olive oils is good.
- Herbs and spices use as normal
- I know that the current fad is making foods with coconut oil.
- But it has not been shown to be better, it might actually be bad.
- People eat big servings of steaks and foods [shaping the air between her hands to plate sized steaks of meat] is also bad.
- Did you know you are only suppose to have small portions of meat like the size of a computer mouse or the size of your palm.
- And eat small portions of meat, or fish like salmon. [waving her hand to her palms to indicate small serving in emphasis.]
- sugar, not too much.
- Do not take other medicines or alternative medicines or items other than those prescribed.
- What ever they say about blueberries, coEnzyme Q10 and herbal products, and all those supplements.
- Do not take supplements while on chemo, like Vitamin A, C, E.
- Multivitamins are okay.
Then it got interesting when the discussion started:
-- A person raised a hand and asked "How much is too much sugar?"
- The dietician looked at the person and said "not more than your regular intake."
-- In which the person never looked up from the binder, but searched the food guide,
- and the dietician said "there is no limit on sugar listed in the food guide."
-- Another person asked "Why is Vitamin A, C, E supplements not allowed? You encouraged higher fruit and veggie intake? Are we not suppose to eat fruits and veggies during chemo?"
- That is a good question. Supplements can be too high in antioxidants.
- In cancer treatment, the free radicals are released to attack the cancer cells.
- Taking supplements reduce the number of free radicals.
- Things like supplements are high doses of antioxidants that would reduce the free radicals available to kill cancer cells.
- We are only talking about not eating supplements.
- Fruits and vegetables are fine, we want you to eat enough servings of fruits and vegetables, they are not too much because supplements are high doses of 1 vitamin.
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
The Wai diet is (also) about preventing cancer.
Not about curing it.
In cancer, our natural defense is already overpowered, which requires drastic intervenience.
Cancer is caused, and not so much 'aggravated'.
Whether the cancer overpowers our defense does not depend on the intake level of carcinogens.
but in practise, they will always have 'plenty to eat', as their host is still alive.
What is essential regarding cancer, is the power balance between the cancer cells (their growth rate) and the strength of our defense.
Not about curing it.
In cancer, our natural defense is already overpowered, which requires drastic intervenience.
Not healthy foods per se, but nutrients in general.Once the cancer aggravating substances are removed would eating healthy foods aggravate the cancer?
Cancer is caused, and not so much 'aggravated'.
Whether the cancer overpowers our defense does not depend on the intake level of carcinogens.
The availability of nutrients for cancer cells is important in theory,Would some healthy foods aggravate cancer?
but in practise, they will always have 'plenty to eat', as their host is still alive.
What is essential regarding cancer, is the power balance between the cancer cells (their growth rate) and the strength of our defense.
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Is too late to avoid carcinogens (chemicals that have a high chance of inducing cancer).
But my friend wants to ask if it is okay to take orange juice, egg yolks and olive oil during chemical treatment?
But my friend wants to ask if it is okay to take orange juice, egg yolks and olive oil during chemical treatment?
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Sure.
I'm suspecting that his appetite will be diminished during treatment,
which makes it more important to consume only foods with high nutrient load and a low digestive burden. (sieved OJ, egg yolks without sac)
I'm suspecting that his appetite will be diminished during treatment,
which makes it more important to consume only foods with high nutrient load and a low digestive burden. (sieved OJ, egg yolks without sac)
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
the best way to treat cancer is with buteyko, see normalbreathing.com
simply breathing differently doesn't do much, but when you adopt a healthy lifestyle along with it (nasal breathing + gradual exercise + clean fresh air indoors and out + no allergy triggers from materials or foods + gradual wai diet + prevent overheating + prevent oversleeping + prevent overeating**) then it can heal almost anything. The earlier you adopt the lifestyle the better in terms of chance of success. Some things are better treated with antibiotics and other things though, of course, usually open wound or wound-related infections or maybe laxatives and things for food poisoning. Nothing is really a one-size-fits all panacea, but the healthy lifestyle I mentioned is as close as it gets.
**overeating means in total, a healthy body can adopt to wai warrior type heavy meals, but as long as the overall total of food is not too much, it should be fine. sick people however will not do well on wai warrior type meals.
simply breathing differently doesn't do much, but when you adopt a healthy lifestyle along with it (nasal breathing + gradual exercise + clean fresh air indoors and out + no allergy triggers from materials or foods + gradual wai diet + prevent overheating + prevent oversleeping + prevent overeating**) then it can heal almost anything. The earlier you adopt the lifestyle the better in terms of chance of success. Some things are better treated with antibiotics and other things though, of course, usually open wound or wound-related infections or maybe laxatives and things for food poisoning. Nothing is really a one-size-fits all panacea, but the healthy lifestyle I mentioned is as close as it gets.
**overeating means in total, a healthy body can adopt to wai warrior type heavy meals, but as long as the overall total of food is not too much, it should be fine. sick people however will not do well on wai warrior type meals.
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
RRM ,
in case of a tumor (no chemical treatment) :
would it be best to skip all protein type foods (fish , yolks , nuts) completely and just go for the fruit ?
or maybe add just 1 yolk a day or so ?
what about fatty foods - like avocado , olive oil ?
in case of a tumor (no chemical treatment) :
would it be best to skip all protein type foods (fish , yolks , nuts) completely and just go for the fruit ?
or maybe add just 1 yolk a day or so ?
what about fatty foods - like avocado , olive oil ?
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
There are different dietary theories about this.
It also depends on the type of tumor. (where does it feed on? What does it produce?)
One theory is about starving the tumor by keeping blood amino acid levels down.
Another theory is about attacking the tumor with the use of autophagy.
The downside of protein-deprivation is that all (re)construction efforts are inhibited as well.
The downside of intermittent autophagy is that there will be a catabolic and an anabolic phase,
and regarding the tumor, the influence of the former needs to be stronger than that of the latter.
What type of tumor is it?
What stage is it in?
Are you (or other person) under medical supervision?
It also depends on the type of tumor. (where does it feed on? What does it produce?)
One theory is about starving the tumor by keeping blood amino acid levels down.
Another theory is about attacking the tumor with the use of autophagy.
The downside of protein-deprivation is that all (re)construction efforts are inhibited as well.
The downside of intermittent autophagy is that there will be a catabolic and an anabolic phase,
and regarding the tumor, the influence of the former needs to be stronger than that of the latter.
What type of tumor is it?
What stage is it in?
Are you (or other person) under medical supervision?
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
the tumor is in the breast .
i have no information about the type or stage it is in .
no medical supervision .
no ( believe in ) medical intervention ( like surgery for exact diagnosis … ) .
just a strong idea to stop feeding the tumor so it will naturally disappear of its own accord …
the person seems otherwise quite healthy ( fruitarian , moderately active ) .
what would be the best to do diet-wise ?
how to make the influence of the catabolic phase stronger than that of the anabolic ( intermittent fasting ) ?
you have any precise instructions for autophagy in this case ?
thanks so much RRM ! : )
i have no information about the type or stage it is in .
no medical supervision .
no ( believe in ) medical intervention ( like surgery for exact diagnosis … ) .
just a strong idea to stop feeding the tumor so it will naturally disappear of its own accord …
the person seems otherwise quite healthy ( fruitarian , moderately active ) .
what would be the best to do diet-wise ?
how to make the influence of the catabolic phase stronger than that of the anabolic ( intermittent fasting ) ?
you have any precise instructions for autophagy in this case ?
thanks so much RRM ! : )
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Personally, i believe that an accurate diagnosis is essential, because if you want to counteract it, you need to know what you are dealing with exactly.
If its growth is accelerated by estrogen, for example, you will try to suppress estrogen levels.
If the main factor in its growth is the availability of protein, you will try to reduce blood amino acid levels.
If it is prone to spread rapidly, surgery may be the only immediate life-saver.
So, really, try to press her to get a proper diagnosis immediately.
What is best, may be very different, depending on the characteristics of the tumor.
What makes it grow? What inhibits its growth?
Unfortunately, surviving cancer cells specialize in avoiding getting detected by our immune system through various 'tricks'.
As our immune (defense) system gets bypassed /outsmarted, we may resort to fasting.
Fasting (intermittent or not) stimulates both autophagy and apoptosis.
Autophagy cleans up the garbage inside cells, making existing cells perform better and prevent cancer.
Apoptosis breaks down entire cells, particularly of redundant and abnormally behaving (like cancer) cells.
In that sense fasting stimulates apoptosis similar to chemical cancer drugs.
Intermittent fasting needs to be sufficiently substantial to kill scores of cells, hopefully including the cancer cells.
So you will need an eating window that is as small as possible.
Just big enough to facilitate repair of all that needs to be repaired (you dont want to weaken your defense),
but dominated by the fasting window. So i'd suggest only one eating window of just 4 hours a day, preferrably at night, so that the end of the eating window coincides with the start of the repair window (during sleep).
But you dont want that, because that will eventually compromise your defense.
So, you need to prevent stimulating the tumor anabolically, while still stimulating normal cell repair and growth.
Unfortunately, we can only know how to do this after a proper diagnosis, because the same fasting regime will have different effects on differing tumors.
If its growth is accelerated by estrogen, for example, you will try to suppress estrogen levels.
If the main factor in its growth is the availability of protein, you will try to reduce blood amino acid levels.
If it is prone to spread rapidly, surgery may be the only immediate life-saver.
So, really, try to press her to get a proper diagnosis immediately.
That really depends on the type of tumor.what would be the best to do diet-wise ?
What is best, may be very different, depending on the characteristics of the tumor.
What makes it grow? What inhibits its growth?
What anyone with cancer wants, is that her defense steps up, and eliminates the cancer.you have any precise instructions for autophagy in this case ?
Unfortunately, surviving cancer cells specialize in avoiding getting detected by our immune system through various 'tricks'.
As our immune (defense) system gets bypassed /outsmarted, we may resort to fasting.
Fasting (intermittent or not) stimulates both autophagy and apoptosis.
Autophagy cleans up the garbage inside cells, making existing cells perform better and prevent cancer.
Apoptosis breaks down entire cells, particularly of redundant and abnormally behaving (like cancer) cells.
In that sense fasting stimulates apoptosis similar to chemical cancer drugs.
Intermittent fasting needs to be sufficiently substantial to kill scores of cells, hopefully including the cancer cells.
So you will need an eating window that is as small as possible.
Just big enough to facilitate repair of all that needs to be repaired (you dont want to weaken your defense),
but dominated by the fasting window. So i'd suggest only one eating window of just 4 hours a day, preferrably at night, so that the end of the eating window coincides with the start of the repair window (during sleep).
Simply put; by fasting to such an extend that you loose a lot of weight.how to make the influence of the catabolic phase stronger than that of the anabolic ( intermittent fasting ) ?
But you dont want that, because that will eventually compromise your defense.
So, you need to prevent stimulating the tumor anabolically, while still stimulating normal cell repair and growth.
Unfortunately, we can only know how to do this after a proper diagnosis, because the same fasting regime will have different effects on differing tumors.
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
thank you VERY much for your time and insights RRM !!
apparently for a proper diagnosis , surgery seems necessary … which is no option for her …
the doc said he doesn’t want to do a needle biopsy bcs by doing so the tumor ( maybe maligne ) could easily spread …
do you know of any alternative diagnostic methods ?
could you please explain why the 4hr eating window would be preferrable at night ?
why is it important that it coincides directly with the repair window ?
what would be different by setting the window say from 14h-18h compared to 18h-22h ?
for now , more generally , within this 4hr eating window :
would you advice only fruit juices ?
maybe add 1 yolk a day ?
what about fatty foods like coconut-meat or avocado : better avoid or okay ?
a lot of questions here … : )
apparently for a proper diagnosis , surgery seems necessary … which is no option for her …
the doc said he doesn’t want to do a needle biopsy bcs by doing so the tumor ( maybe maligne ) could easily spread …
do you know of any alternative diagnostic methods ?
could you please explain why the 4hr eating window would be preferrable at night ?
why is it important that it coincides directly with the repair window ?
what would be different by setting the window say from 14h-18h compared to 18h-22h ?
for now , more generally , within this 4hr eating window :
would you advice only fruit juices ?
maybe add 1 yolk a day ?
what about fatty foods like coconut-meat or avocado : better avoid or okay ?
a lot of questions here … : )
Re: Cancer & Prior Treatment
Im sorry, but i do not.Nadia wrote:do you know of any alternative diagnostic methods ?
Im sure there is good information available about this though.
Repair is only done at night, while we are sleeping.could you please explain why the 4hr eating window would be preferrable at night ?
Repair requires the right settings of hormones and nutrients, which is intertwined.
An abundance of nutrients at night evokes an optimal metabolic / repair state during sleep.
If there is space in between, the peak of nutrients in the blood will not coincide with the repair window.why is it important that it coincides directly with the repair window ?
This peak of nutrients facilitates the most optimal conditions for repair.
The level of repair is related to the peak in available nutrients.
When you do this kind of extensive fasting, you will need to use this repair window absolutely optimally.
The peak in nutrient availability will be 4 hours earlier.what would be different by setting the window say from 14h-18h compared to 18h-22h ?
The overlap in high nutrient availability and the repair window will be smaller, thus not optimal.
Sieved juices, plus some sugar (as it may be too hard to ingest enough sugars in only 4 hours) and raw animal foodwithin this 4hr eating window :
would you advice only fruit juices ?
3, as a minimum.maybe add 1 yolk a day ?
Great, as needed for the energy.what about fatty foods like coconut-meat or avocado : better avoid or okay ?
But they may be too heavy for optimal digestion.
Avocado and coconut from the slow juicer would be far superior.
You cannot ask too much if you do not have the answers already.a lot of questions here … : )