Too Little Protein

[Seth]

In what I have read, it appears that eating too much protein for some can cause breakouts. Can consuming too little protein also do the same? I read what Wai wrote in an article stating that you can receive sufficient amounts of protein via only fruits. Has anyone tried dispensing with the yolks, fish and/or nuts completely and go this route?

[nick]

You have to eat specific portions of fruit.

Mixed fruit (equal portions of pineapple, banana, orange, mandarin, peach and avocado, and 100g of dried figs , 100g dried date + 35 g brazil nuts), contains (in mg) more of every amino acid (1) than we need

I would recommend still eating the yolks/fish as you need the vitamins, cholesterol and protein. How much yolks or fish do you eat in a day?

[Seth]

I have been consuming between 2500-2800 cals/day. I am 5'11" and weight 168. I have been eating only 50 grams of fresh tuna every other day. I stopped eating yolks (2-3 a day) after going with the tuna. While I lost weight, I have apparently not lost any muscle mass since my weight training regimen has not suffered any setbacks whatsoever. Do you still feel this is too little?

I would recommend still eating the yolks/fish as you need the vitamins, cholesterol and protein. How much yolks or fish do you eat in a day?[/quote]

[nick]

I have been consuming between 2500-2800 cals/day. I am 5'11" and weight 168. I have been eating only 50 grams of fresh tuna every other day. I stopped eating yolks (2-3 a day) after going with the tuna. While I lost weight, I have apparently not lost any muscle mass since my weight training regimen has not suffered any setbacks whatsoever. Do you still feel this is too little?

You need to eat more! I weigh less and I eat around 3,000 Calories.
You said you have been on this diet for 2 weeks except for one small deviation.
What is that deviation?
You aren't following the strict sample diet if you are deviating from it or breaking the rules. If you follow it correctly maybe those spots on your back might go away?

You need to eat more yolks. At least 5 a day. Also, when your skin is cleared up completely, you can add more and see what happens.
You said you were also eating tuna every other day. You need to eat it everyday. Alternate between 5 yolks one day and tuna the next or however is best for you.

[Seth]

What I meant by deviation is that I strayed once from it over the two weeks. Other than that I have stayed on it without fail.

I will try the alternating between the two sources of protein. I guess I was a bit more careful since I wasn't sure that even too much clean protein would cause problems.

[nick]

What I meant by deviation is that I strayed once from it over the two weeks. Other than that I have stayed on it without fail.

Techinically, once you screw up you start over at day one.
But since you have seen good progress, just keep on with the diet and everything should clear up.
Did you break out after you ate the munch food?

I will try the alternating between the two sources of protein.

If you buy 1/2 pound of fish, then eat it for how ever long it lasts for, then eat some yolks for the next few days and so on. You don't necessarily have to alternate each day, as that could be hard to go buy fresh fish every other day.

I guess I was a bit more careful since I wasn't sure that even too much clean protein would cause problems.

Yes, too much clean protein can cause breakouts.
But you were eating the right amount of fish and just needed to make sure you ate 5 yolks.
Good Luck!

[Seth]

I broke out a little bit I think, but I was still developing new spots even before that time, so it is not exactly easy to tell if it had much of an effect or not.

Why would it completely reset after one mess up? Does such an event have such resounding consequences even if you ate a little bit of dirty protein one particular day?

I will adopt the eggs on the days I don't eat fish and see how it goes. I am lucky because there is a local place that has fresh Albacore and Ahi on a regular basis.

Thank you for the help and advice!

[RRM]

Can consuming too little protein also do the same?

Not the same, but yes, consuming too little protein results in the breakdown of chunks of muscle protein that end up in the blood and lymphe, which may cause acne.
But then again, you would notice by rapidly decreasing muscle volume and weight.
Also, you need the fish and yolks to be able to maintain this diet, as they are very satisfying.

Why would it completely reset after one mess up?

Its not the reset, but once you have had munch food, you are back to starting at day one of eating only sample-diet foods.
For example, if you had been eating strict for 1 week, and then have munch food, and then start eating only sample diet foods again for one more week, you cannot say that you were on it for 2 weeks, as you cannot eat ANY munch foods while on it. Then you were on it maximally one week.

[Seth]

Its not the reset, but once you have had munch food, you are back to starting at day one of eating only sample-diet foods.
For example, if you had been eating strict for 1 week, and then have munch food, and then start eating only sample diet foods again for one more week, you cannot say that you were on it for 2 weeks, as you cannot eat ANY munch foods while on it. Then you were on it maximally one week.

That makes perfect sense. So it has more to do with being 100% sure that any new outbreaks cannot be tied to anything outside the sample diet, but not that eating one munch food is necessarily going to negate everything prior.

[nick]

That makes perfect sense. So it has more to do with being 100% sure that any new outbreaks cannot be tied to anything outside the sample diet, but not that eating one munch food is necessarily going to negate everything prior.

Yes.
But eating the munch food does set you back, but it depends on how sensitive you are to 'dirty' protein in munch foods. For some only a little can their skin tolerate, for others a meal once a day doesn't cause a problem.

By keeping strict, you'll know for sure once your skin is totally clear and you can then start experimenting.

[avalon]

I know this is late to this thread,
but isn't it also and perhaps more importantly, 'which' munch food precisely we are talking about. As certain 'munch foods' may or may not cause acne in particular individuals- Which is why Wai allows munch foods at all, right?

If you know, rather keep track of what you eat, and have a break-out, and you were fine before the break-out, then why would a 100% restart be needed, if you already know which munch-foods you may have already re-included, are shown to be safe??? Though, I can see how it wouldn't hurt to restart the sample diet.

And I am interested in Seth's question:

I read what Wai wrote in an article stating that you can receive sufficient amounts of protein via only fruits. Has anyone tried dispensing with the yolks, fish and/or nuts completely and go this route?

Has, anyone tried this?

Avalon

[RRM]

why would a 100% restart be needed, if you already know which munch-foods you may have already re-included, are shown to be safe???

Because it might (most likely) also be the accumulative effect. a few little bads may be too much. Re-starting at 100% strict, you can find out how much your skin can cope with exactly that one suspect munch food.
In theory, the last added munch food might actually be the least bad for your skin, but 'just the drop that makes the water spill over'. Only by re-starting the 100% strict version, you can learn how much effect a number of those drops have on your skin. You can only learn about those drops by isolating the effects of those drops...

I read what Wai wrote in an article stating that you can receive sufficient amounts of protein via only fruits. Has anyone tried dispensing with the yolks, fish and/or nuts completely and go this route?

We advice not to do so because its not just about protein, you also need specific omega 3 fats, the good cholesterol, B12 and other nutrients from animal food.
It was written in the article just to clarify the role of proteins in fruits. Not to advocate a fruits-only diet.

[avalon]

I hear ya.

Here's a B12 question. So if we've been doing fine with B12 for years and so our levels are full and so forth so that we may have a 5 year supply... if we aren't talking protien or omeag 3s and just B12- could we get along by eating fish or eggs or any animal B12 source say once a week or once a month? Supplements of B12 are recommended on a daily or weekly basis...

say we eats fruits, oil and nuts all week and then animal/eggs/fish on weekends or one day a week- would we be okay B12 wise?

Avalon

[RRM]

Yes, absolutely. The RDAs dont reflect our needs, just recommendations.
Even poorly washed vegetables, containing animal remainders, may already supply you with the B12 that you need.

[avalon]

Thank you.

Besides everything I've posted, I really want to cut back on animal comsumption- including, fish, because of some weird feeling that I should be protecting animals/fish instead of eating them ???