PCOS, insulin resistance and more...

[Chai]

Hey

It's been a while since I was here last and I've been battling PCOS, adrenal fatigue and more and trying different diets since.
Nothing seems to work in regards to reversing insulin resistance and making a weightloss possible.

I've come across the 80 10 10 diet (Douglas Graham) and a lot of what he says makes sense. It's not that far from the Wai diet, however their claim is, that the reason I cannot eat fruit without going to sleep instantly (yes it is really that bad) is because my cell receptors are covered with fats and that the way to eat the fruit is without additional fats.

So mainly one eats heaps of fruit, some tender greens and rarely nuts and avocado because they are fatty.
I tried this for some days and although the fruit did give my body something good (my skin was more clear and vibrant) I got bloated and VERY tired. Normally I'm told by doctors to eat more like an Atkins kind of diet, but truely this is not working for me and again I just have to conclude that we're not meant to eat meat, because we can't digest it well enough. We can eat it, but won't thrive on the amounts that the western world is chowing down.

So I'm sort of blank now. The fruits feel like the most natural source of food to me, but I can't handle the sugar load if I have to eat only fruits. Then Wais diet makes more sense, however I don't think ancient man had access to oils in that form, so it seems weird that we should ingest olive oil now for any reason. I can agree with the egg yolk, because watching monkeys and apes - they have an egg or some termites now and then, but we don't see them crack open a bottle of oil to poor on their fruits.

When I did the Wai diet last time (2006) my digestion loved it, but I still have issues with spikes of blood sugar and wasn't losing weight. I'm really confused because all the 80-10-10 dieters are all saying that it's not the fruits and sugar from fruits that makes trouble for me being insulin resistant. It's the combo of fruits and fats! So please, could someone give me a better understanding because I'm hearing so many different things?

I've heard from other sources that fats make insulin resistance worse. And OMG protein...I can't have anymore flesh food or I'll puke! Veggies (raw and steamed) are all that appeal to me at the moment, because the fruits made me so bloated and tired. At least on high protein diets I seem to be able to exercise (which I am - 1 - 1,5 hours daily biking and soon I'll be adding onto that some resistance training in a gym) - but my digestion spoke loud and clear...don't eat meat!!! But I really think I'm doing what I should be doing - not eating too much, smaller meals, exercise, however I think that living on mostly protein seems stupid when the body and brain runs on glucose. It adds up to making it even more difficult and stressful for the body, when what I really want is to achieve optimal health and make food intake less of a burden and more of a source to nutrients. I need to shed at least 25 pounds, so I'm trying to work with my body and not against it, but I can't seem to find the right path.

I am ready to work for it, but I have been for months now on high protein with zero results! And I was even undereating, so normal people would have lost a ton of weight, but I didn't and that's when I thought I was doing something wrong...

Where I am at now I am making some veggie soup, eating some fruit so the brain and body gets glucose, but I was told to stay of fats, so that's where I get confused. I need to up my caloric intake so I won't start craving other foods, so I didn't feel like I had other choices than to add a little cooked rice, lentils and beans because I simply can't eat enough salads, greens and fruits to get enough calories. I could if I could eat loads of fruit, but then I get tired and unable to exercise and that's not an option.

I'm taking supplements like C, D, Chromium, Zink, Magnesium and some amino acids. The amino acids helps me miraculously to avoid cravings for raffined carbs that I was addicted to (bulimic 13 yrs) - those tendencies disappeared right away after I started, so I'm sticking to those at least for a while, because it gives me the possibility to have enough peace and quiet in my system so that I can make wiser food choices...

In regards to adrenal fatigue: I don't sleep much - get energetic at night and more tired during the day because of high cortisol, low blood pressure, problems with salt and potassium, low female hormones (hence the PCOS), imbalance in neurotransmitters produced in the adrenals (why the amino acids make a difference) and addiction to things that can stimulate (caffeine from diet coke, coffee and vigorous exercise to loud music)...it's all connected of course, but before I can reverse the insulin resistance and have my cells function normally I cannot use fruit as a major food source....and I really need to, because I find that this is how we're designed to eat...

All input is most welcome...thanks!

[dime]

I just have to conclude that we're not meant to eat meat, because we can't digest it well enough

You can conclude that maybe you are not meant to eat meat, not we. Maybe you have problem with low acid in the stomach? Or you don't produce some enzymes that are needed to digest protein? Or maybe you need to try raw meat? Or even better (might be easier to digest), raw fish?

I agree that it's not such a good idea to mix whole fruits with fats (juices with fats seems to work fine though). Best to eat fats e.g. half to one hour after you've eaten the fruit. But completely avoiding fats doesn't make sense.

I don't know much about insulin resistance though, so can't really help.

[Chai]

I conclude it not only because "I" can't digest well enough. There are loads of other indications that humans aren't meant to eat meat. Have you ever salivated when you saw a cow in a field and felt the instinct to run over and bite into its neck and drink up the warm blood along with skin, hair, guts and all? I mean - yeah we take few parts of the animal because someone made it available to us, but that doesn't really alter the basic design of the human digestive tract in my opinion

I'm not sure what to think, but where would man have found oil? Sure we can produce it now, but eating something refined makes less sense than eating it just because it exist today There is fats in both fruits and veggies, so it's not like we wouldn't get any fats at all.

Insulin resistance is a real nasty bugger It's the step before diabetes 2...

[dime]

I thought it's widely accepted that we're omnivores? Meaning we're well able to eat both plants and animals. How we get to the food is less relevant in todays world. Nobody stops you from eating whole foods containing a lot of fats instead of oils if that's what you prefer. Bone marrow and other raw animal fat are pretty much pure fat, i.e. equivalent to oil.. avocados, coconuts, nuts, probably some other fruits, all contain large amounts of fat too.

Have you ever salivated when you saw a cow in a field and felt the instinct to run over and bite into its neck and drink up the warm blood along with skin, hair, guts and all?

Depends how you're raised, imagine you're a Maasai or Eskimo.. I'm pretty sure exactly what you described would happened if you saw a cow or a seal :) But this doesn't imply we're good or not good at eating animals.

[dime]

Check the recently started 'ultimate health guide' btw viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2978
It might help with your insulin problem :)

How do you know you're insulin resistant btw, are there any symptoms that indicate, or maybe medical tests?

[RRM]

When I did the Wai diet last time (2006) my digestion loved it, but I still have issues with spikes of blood sugar and wasn't losing weight.

If you still had/have blood sugar spikes on the Wai diet, you just need to make the meals smaller,
and increase meal frequency,
till the point that you experience no more blood sugar spikes.

So please, could someone give me a better understanding because I'm hearing so many different things?

That cannot possibly change the fact that you are hearing so many different things.
Whatever we say, may only add more info, possibly more 'different things'.

Regardless of the 'outcome' of the fat-insulin debate, the good news is that the smaller your meal size, the less need for an insulin response,
and thus the smaller the alleged influence of dietary fat.
So, all you need to do is to sufficiently decrease meal size and increase meal frequency.

the fruits made me so bloated and tired.

Then use a (masticating) juicer to juice your fruits (to eliminate the bloating)
and increase meal frequency (to eliminate tiredness).

my digestion spoke loud and clear...don't eat meat!!!

Try eating raw fish and egg yolks in moderation.

I didn't feel like I had other choices than to add a little cooked rice, lentils and beans

Thats the path to getting bloated.

I simply can't eat enough salads, greens and fruits to get enough calories.

You can by drinking fruit juices instead of whole fruits.

... because of high cortisol, low blood pressure, problems with salt and potassium, low female hormones (hence the PCOS), imbalance in neurotransmitters produced in the adrenals

Has all this been established through tests done by a MD?

[Chai]

Hi RRM, sorry for taking so long in getting back...

If you still had/have blood sugar spikes on the Wai diet, you just need to make the meals smaller,
and increase meal frequency,
till the point that you experience no more blood sugar spikes.

How much energy should I be consuming in a day - I'm biking or walking an hour a day but other than that I am quite sedentary. I would aim for 1400 - 1600 calories to lose weight but is there something different, when doing The Wai Diet in regards to calories. I'm 20 pounds overweight so there is quite a bit of way to go...any advice on how to approach this I'd be happy to hear

I've increased number of meals and decreased amount but I'm still eating things that aren't exactly wai, but this is mostly because I've just been through a rough month of stomach flu and I just eat what I can stomach at the moment I eat some fruit with olive oil and banana with yolks so I'm going towards it with small steps, but I still have some cooked animal protein. I don't really like veggies, legumes or some of the other stuff my regular dietician tells me to eat, so at least I'm off that stuff.

I'm taking some supplements, but as far as I remember Wai speaks against taking supplements. Can you elaborate on why that is?

And if eating say an apple. How much oil approx should I eat with it - like a tea spoon or table spoon-ish. Just to get an idea roughly so I don't over do it

Thanks

[overkees]

We don't take supplements because the diet provides enough nutrients. Please fill in the nutrient calculator and see what nutrients you lack. Then you see if it's really necessary to take supplements.

Especially supplementing too much minerals is a bad thing to do. Your body can change absorbtion rates for minerals. So if you only eat little iodide, more is absorbed. There however is a minimum intake. So please fill in your average diet and post to see if it is essential to take supplements.

How tall are you? Are you a girl or a guy? Because 1600 calories is really really low. I am 1.90 m and I eat 3000 calories a day and still am lean.

[Chai]

Thanks overkees,

Where is the calculator? I'll give it a go.

I just looked at amino acids in egg yolk and combined with the memory of how good I felt on Wai last time years ago, I've decided to follow the diet again. It's obviously packed with nutrients that are of course as nature meant it to be easier to digest...at least that's my thoughts about it. I'm not happy taking supplements and truely there should be no reason to do so, if not eating foods that will cause imbalances.

I am a girl, 33 yrs old. I'm 165 (metric)...which is about 5"4 I think. I am 156 lbs or 71 kilos which is too much and that is obvious and sadly it's the unhealthy belly fat because of the PCOS so weight loss is an issue for sure. I've been used to thinking that I need to create an energy deficit. Am I wrong to think that? I cannot see myself eating 3000 calories. My energy needs if normal would be around 2200 I suppose, but that's the reason I would go lower to 1600 to have a deficit. Could you possibly explain how else I would lose the weight?

[overkees]

Nutrient calculator:
http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-calcsimple.html

That is correct, your intake of energy needs to be less than your output. But, how do you do this? Most people can handle it for a while, but get crazy and depressed and lose it because they ingest far too little energy to feel good. So you shouldn't create a too big deficit.

What you need to do, is eating small meals more frequently. Not eating until your body is full. Because excess energy is first stored in your sugar stores, which are very quickly full and the rest is converted into body fat.
That's why, if you eat frequent small meals, you only refill sugar stores and not add much to the fat stores, because sugar stores are never full. So no new fat is added.

Fat is always used as an energy source, so you will always burn fat. So if you don't add new fat it will dissapear over time.

Eating small meals on wai is easier than on a standard diet. Because we don't eat addictive substances, so you will start to learn how to listen to your body. It's pretty hard in the beginning if you're used to associate hungry with eating until you're stuffed. So be strong.

Beware of low energy symptoms, if you experience these you are less likely to stick to the diet. So beware of headaches, sweaty hands or fatique. If you have mood swings often, you should really start to eat a lot more.

Good luck

[RRM]

I've been used to thinking that I need to create an energy deficit. Am I wrong to think that?

Yes, most people think they need to create an energy deficit in the blood.
That is not the right way, because then you will start feeling tired and depressed,
and eventually the cravings will win, as your body's survival instinct is stronger than anything else.
So, its not about 'starving yourself'.
By 'starving yourself' i mean 'creating an energy deficit in the blood.'

Its also not about increasing the utilization of body fat, because that requires a higher level of physical activity,
which indeed increases the utilization of body fat, but more so increases the utilization of sugar (by your muscles).
So, what is the best level of fat utilization?
When the utilization of fat relative to that of sugars is greatest.
The more physically active your are, the more sugars you will burn, relative to burning fat,
so that the lowest level of physical activity has the highest ratio of fat burned (relative to sugars burned)

So, how does losing weight the Wai-way work?
Its all about preventing the storage of new body fat.
New body fat is created with every big meal, as the amount of energy coming in (from either sugars, protein, fat or alcohol)
always exceeds the amount of energy required to replenish blood energy levels.
With every big meal you create new body fat.
Luckily, we all burn fat 24/7, so that we need to do, is preventing the creation of new body fat.
The smaller the meals, the less excess energy.

Again, its NOT about creating an energy deficit in the blood, as we try to keep the energy levels in the blood
adequate, to prevent feeling tired, depressed or agitated, and to prevent cravings.
Its also NOT about consuming little fat, as fat and cholesterol help you to feel well and prevent cravings.
Its about always consuming very small meals very frequently, so that we are constantly replenishing blood energy levels without creating new body fat.
As we are burning fat 24/7, you will lose body fat till the point that its unhealthy to lose more.