fruits and weight loss?

[kylecortez]

I'm not sure I fully understand how fruits can assist in weight loss. Let's take, for example, someone who's survival genes are a little more expressed than the average person (i.e. somebody who tends to make a little more insulin than necessary). Any time he eats fruit, wouldn't the carbohydrates in fruit trigger an insulin response, and then now put fat cells in the absorptive state? Insulin also inhibits the contents of fat cells from being used as well. And its been shown that people who have the survival gene, the insulin will hang around in the blood alot longer than needed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-fruit. In fact, this is the only carbohydrate source i have anymore (nuts have a small amount of carbs too). It's just that I want to keep getting rid of my belly and i think that fruit will be detrimental to my efforts.

[Oscar]

Hello Kyle,

I don't have sufficient gene knowledge to say anything definitive about that, but personally I think the influence of genetics is less than we believe at the moment. Also, a lot of research is done based on people with a standard diet, who might not be in a natural healthy condition.

Concerning insulin, we have to take care to keep the blood sugar level as stable as possible, during sugar intake. This is done by consuming sufficient fats at the same time.

Concerning weight loss: what it untimately boils down to, is the energy intake vs energy output.
The total amount of sugar your blood can hold, plus the total amount your glycogen depots can hold should be your maximum sugar level. Everything you ingest more, will be converted into body fat. Body fat can be used again, but only as 'fat energy', and will only be used if your body gets enough fats.

So:
1. learn to balance your sugar intake
2. consume enough (healthy) fats at the same time
3. exercise regularly - walking or any kind of long-term low-energy exercise

Hope this helps!

[kylecortez]

I like your response, but me personally, I am not a proponent of the energy in/energy out school of thought. That is treating the body as a bomb calirometer, which we are not. Though it is a bit difficult, i can loose weight effortlessley on a ketogenic diet. Not to mention I can eat as mucha as I want on such a diet. Fat cells can only absorb in the presence of insulin. Dietary fat's influence on insulin release is negligible, protein's influence is a little greater (though the thermogenic effect of having to process proteins surley makes up for any of the insulin release it does cause) and carbohydrates of any kind, even fruits, will cause insulin release and put fat cells in the absorptive state.

What I have been doing latley is following a ketogenic diet all day long, but eating some fruit before bed. It's hard to sleep on a ketogenic diet because of the brain fog. But to eat fruit all day long, I can't see that assisting in weight loss.

[RRM]

Originally posted by Kyle Cortez:
I am not a proponent of the energy in/energy out school of thought.

So, according to your view, when you take in more calories than required, you will not gain weight?

i can loose weight effortlessley on a ketogenic diet.

You can loose weight on any diet.
Consuming sufficient fat will make it easier, indeed.

Not to mention I can eat as mucha as I want on such a diet.

Not true; if you ingest more energy than required, you will gain weight.

carbohydrates of any kind, even fruits, will cause insulin release and put fat cells in the absorptive state.

Practise shows that people on this high-carb diet easily loose weight.
Not the other way around.
We need to make a distinction regarding WHEN carbs are ingested. If this happens when blood-energy levels need to be repleted, no energy is stored.

It's hard to sleep on a ketogenic diet because of the brain fog

Do you think this is healthy?

I want to keep getting rid of my belly and i think that fruit will be detrimental to my efforts

If you think so, go for it.

[kylecortez]

RRM, i hope i didnt come off as egotistical; I'm really not. I know alot about nutrition yet i still dont know what to eat. I've already had 2 stints with anorexia and bulimia 2 years ago and a year ago. I also did the whole obsessive exercise thing too (cardio and weights). I'm afraid I really have no idea what to do anymore


Low carb has worked for me in the past, but it is not enjoyable at all. I even said it myself about the brain fog. The premise seems correct if we stop insulin secretions (by eating alot of fat and protein, and negligible carbs) then we can prevent hyperinsulinemia and everything that comes along with that blood condition. But what good is leanness if your quality of life is bad?

I completley agree with Wai in terms of fruits being the only carbohydrate source that we need. What kind of fruit intake are we talking about here? How can I do the glycogen method? I really can't tell when my glycogen depots are empty, unless my glycogen were somehow isotopically tagged. lol. I just need a little help about how to use fruit is all. Thanks

-Kyle

[RRM]

The premise seems correct if we stop insulin secretions (by eating alot of fat and protein, and negligible carbs) then we can prevent hyperinsulinemia

To state that carbs are bad (regarding hyperinsulinemai) and fats and protein are not, is oversimplifying the whole issue.
To prevent hyperinsulinemia you dont need to diminish the intake of an essential nutrient.
All you need to do, is to prevent absorption of too much energy in one meal.
ANY large energy-dense meal will cause temporary hyperinsulinemia, while consuming small meals, relatively rich in carbs, will not.

But what good is leanness if your quality of life is bad?

Absolutely.
And leanness is very easy to achieve on this high-carb diet.

What kind of fruit intake are we talking about here?

The essence is to only replenish the sugars lost.
So, you 'only' need to learn to eat according to your need for energy.
You probably know how it feels when your blood energy level is running empty, feeling weak and sleepy. Well, then you just need to eat one piece of fruit, or take a few sips from a fruit-juice.
You can also just consume half, and see how fast you need energy again.
You just need to take in enough to feel a bit energized again, and not a bit more.
The key issue is taking in only very small meals and postponing the next meal until you are sure you need some energy again.

How can I do the glycogen method? I really can't tell when my glycogen depots are empty

Yes, you can. Flex your muscles; do you feel they are ready for action, or not?
And every time you are having problems determinating whether the glycogen depots are empty, pretend they are not empty, and first take a long walk.

[Oscar]

Well Kyle, whether you look at your body as a machine (or 'bomb calorimeter', though I'm not sure what that exactly is... ), as a spiritual vessel of the soul, or otherwise, it will still need energy (sugars and fats) to function.

If you lose weight easily on a ketogenic diet, why don't you eat like that the whole time? Like you mentioned earlier, the 'brain fog' does seem to indicate that this is not the kind of diet your/a body is looking for.

Maybe you could tell us exactly what kind of diet you're following. Do you eat cooked foods? What kind of fats are you consuming? Do you consume fats with your fruit?

[kylecortez]

My diet is simple Oscar:

Meat/seafood - all cooked
Fruits
Nuts/seeds - mostly raw
Eggs - raw and cooked

Carbs coming from fruit and a little bit from nuts
Protein coming from the eggs/meat/seafood
Fat coming from the nuts/eggs/meat

[Oscar]

My answer is simple too: get rid of all the cooked stuff, and follow the Wai Diet as close as you can.

Once your body has gotten rid of harmful substances, and of the cooked food addiction, it will be much easier to tell what you need. By that time you will also have easily lost weight.

[RRM]

Especially cooked meat / seafood contains lots of beta-carbolines that will trigger your appetite beyond the need for energy, which readily makes you gain weight.

[kylecortez]

This diet is flawless isnt it? I cant find anything wrong with it. I think the only problem is my addiction to all of the other foods that I've grown up with my whole life. The grains especially! Once you do this diet, you are left with so little in terms of food choice, and to have to explain to people the way you eat im sure is a mission. But wow! This diet literally does provide the guidelines to perfect eating.

Once concern though: the protein intake seems somewhat low on this diet. Will we not exhbit symptoms of protein malnutrition? What kind of intake is low enough to cause protein malnutrition?

[Oscar]

We don't need as much protein as people generally think. Protein recommendations are usually based on a cooked diet, which destroys most of the necessary amino acids.

Plus we get more protein than might seem apparent, because fruit and (brazil) nuts also contain protein.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Oscar:

Plus we get more protein than might seem apparent, because fruit and (brazil) nuts also contain protein.

The upper limit given for brazil nuts on this diet is 35gm per day, which equates with a paltry 5gm protein.

[nick]

I got up to 5 yolks a day following the acne sample diet. I increased to 9-10 a day and didn't notice any major skin problems with it. I feel much more satisfied with more yolks. Sometimes though, I find I can't finish all the yolks. Experiment with more and see what happens. Listen to your body.

[RRM]

Kyle Cortez wrote:
Once concern though: the protein intake seems somewhat low on this diet. Will we not exhbit symptoms of protein malnutrition?

Whatever natural foods you eat, and even if you only eat fruits, you will still ingest more protein than minimally required (see www.13.waisays.com/protein.htm )

If you would ingest too little protein, you would be ingesting too little energy as well, and your muscles would contineously decrease.

Mark wrote:
The upper limit given for brazil nuts on this diet is 35gm per day, which equates with a paltry 5gm protein.

5 grams of brazil nut protein equates 15 gram of milk protein.
How much protein do we minimally need daily?