ketosis

haraldsmith · Post by **haraldsmith** » Thu 10 Aug 2006 21:41

would your body break up protein for energy, when it is using ketones, from the fat, for energy (ketosis) ?

Post by **Oscar** » Thu 10 Aug 2006 23:31

I think so. It's more efficient to convert protein into glucose.

haraldsmith · Post by **haraldsmith** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 02:46

then why is the body producing ketones, if it is not burning the fat?

haraldsmith · Post by **haraldsmith** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 06:37

i did a test, i had 1 tbsp of balsemic vinegar, 1 tbsp of apple cider vinegar, then ate around 5 strawberries with 1 tbsp of sugar, then 1 tbsp of coconut oil. this did not spike me out of ketosis... i'm going to test with larger doses

Post by **Oscar** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 11:42

haraldsmith wrote:then why is the body producing ketones, if it is not burning the fat?

Since you provide it with very little sugars, it has to compromise, improvise if you will. How to survive this sugar shortage the best? Obviously using all the muscle protein will result in quick death. So the body uses both protein and fat from food. The fatty acids will be turned into ketone bodies to be used as energy. This is also what happens in people with diabetes (only for a different reason). You can usually smell the acetone on their breath, because ketone bodies are produced faster than the periferal tissues can use them.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 17:51

haraldsmith wrote:then why is the body producing ketones, if it is not burning the fat?

I agree with Oscar.
Also, the fat that is converted into ketones may all be fats consumed, and non from adipose fat (or not). So, the ketones by themselves are not proof of conversion of bodyfat into available energy, at all.

haraldsmith · Post by **haraldsmith** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 18:20

then what accounts for the accelerated fat loss in this state?

Post by **Oscar** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 18:55

It depends on what you compare it with, but the most probable reason is a lower calorie intake.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Fri 11 Aug 2006 19:44

and/or a shift in consuming energy when you need it to the extend you need it (hence preventing new fat storage). Generally this happens when you are more focussed on your diet than you normally are.

haraldsmith · Post by **haraldsmith** » Sat 12 Aug 2006 01:02

ok, now if i am just above the state of ketosis, does that mean only my liver has been completely filled, or just slightly filled?

Post by **Oscar** » Sat 12 Aug 2006 01:16

I'm not sure, but I would think that unless you consume enough sugars to satiate the blood sugar level AND fill up (part of) the depots, they will be rather empty. Otherwise the body would purposely convert more fats/protein into glucose than it needs, only to convert it into glycogen.

haraldsmith · Post by **haraldsmith** » Sat 12 Aug 2006 02:00

Oscar wrote:I'm not sure, but I would think that unless you consume enough sugars to satiate the blood sugar level AND fill up (part of) the depots, they will be rather empty. Otherwise the body would purposely convert more fats/protein into glucose than it needs, only to convert it into glycogen.

ok, but i'm just curious as how you know they are full, are there any signs, any indications? also.. what i understand is that fruit restores liver glycogen, do the liver depots get filled up first, and then after that it fills up the muscle depots?

Post by **Oscar** » Sat 12 Aug 2006 09:05

I think first the liver, then the muscles, not sure though.
You can tell because you're hungry or not (if your body is healthy, on a healthy raw diet, used to this way). If you're not hungry then depots are full and blood sugar level is max. Your muscles will feel ready for action.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Sat 12 Aug 2006 16:16

haraldsmith wrote:ok, but i'm just curious as how you know they are full, are there any signs, any indications?

If your liver glycogen is empty, the blood sugar needs to be kept at the right level way more strictly. If the liver glycogen is filled, your liver will replenish the lost blood sugar if you fail to eat on time.
So, increased sensitivity of the blood sugar level is an indication for low liver glycogen levels.

If your muscle glycogen depots are filled, your muscles feel very strong; you feel powerful when you flex them.

also.. what i understand is that fruit restores liver glycogen,

No, the glucose (in or from foods, including fruits) consumed in excess of what is required in the blood will restore liver glycogen.

do the liver depots get filled up first, and then after that it fills up the muscle depots?

Yes, but there is no strict division.
What is a big difference is that only liver-glycogen can be re-converted into glucose to replenish lost blood-sugar. Muscle glycogen cannot.