Olive oil and fatty acid balance

[Terence]

<RRM>This post has been edited. Terence, please refrain from advising people opposing Wai's views</RRM>

RRM, I didn´t advise people in my post that you have deleted.
I have describe my personal experience with raw red meat in comparison to eggs and fish.
Do not edit my posts.

Terence

[Terence]

Hi Terence,

Your positive testimony unfortunately still can be backed right up to Douglas Grahm's testimony, leaving some uncertainty for the masses.

I think you meant that my testimony CANNOT be backed up by Douglas Graham, right?
Yes, of course. He is a fruitarian and claims that it works. All people I know, including me, crashed on such a vegan diet. Your own experience is most important...

If you REALLY want to know it you have make your own experience. Try a raw vegan diet. I guess that you will feel the differences relatively soon, let me say in four weeks.

From my own experience I have to kill animals and eat them to feel optimistic and strong. The delegation of the dirty work of killing to others makes it possible to think in another way, like "make peace to animals", what can´t be natural after my personal experience.

I think you are now in the typical diet dilemma... Always remember that experience is much more important than theory.

Terence

[RRM]

RRM, I didn´t advise people in my post that you have deleted.
...
Do not edit my posts.

You did.
And i will when I feel I have to.
I refer to the rules of this forum. (upon registering)

[RRM]

In all my experiments fruits became always disgusting after some weeks

Talking about unnatural...

I don´t understand what you mean.
Most meat eaters tell me that they hate fruits.

And i meant: do you think hating fruits is natural?

Even with very low protein intakes everything is very stable, no muscle loss. I have been on a high fat low protein diet (max. 40-50 grams of protein per day) for six months.

Let us be clear about this:
No sugars, and only 40-50 gram protein.
What on earth did you eat?

Yes, I have eaten max. 40-50 grams of protein per day for exactly six months.

What exactly did your diet consist of? (how much of what)
Because i feel its virtually impossible to ingest no carbs and only 40-50 grams of protein.

feeling drowsy and weak ... is definetely not healthy.

It has nothing to do with health.
Your body wants you to ingest more energy, and that is how it warns you. If you then dont listen, no that much of a problem, cause it will change its ways (adrenaline, for example).
The point is: we listen to our body, so that we hear far more clearly. Nothing unhealthy about that.

How much sugar grows on the longitude of Amsterdam naturally?

The longitude of Amsterdam is not the natural habitat of homo erectus either.

[Terence]

And i meant: do you think hating fruits is natural?

I don´t know. On a fruit diet I love fruits, on a meat diet I hate them.
I feel better, stronger ond more optimistic on a meat diet. Humans are very flexible.
Adam and Eve have been thrown out of Eden after eating an apple. hehe
I know that there is virtually no edible fruit in nature in most places of this planet.
Harvesting apples and oranges requires work, like cutting the trees and many years of breeding.
It´s necessary to modify nature to be able to live on fruits. Think about it...

Terence

[RRM]

there is virtually no edible fruit in nature in most places of this planet.

In the original habitat of Homo erectus, there was.
Most places of this world are not meant for us to live.

It´s necessary to modify nature to be able to live on fruits.

Our life is highly 'modified', so whats wrong about including our natural food in that?

[johndela1]

Terrence,

Why does it have to be natural? I look at my body as a biochemical machine and am looking for the best way to fuel it. The waidiet gives us addequate nutrition with the least amount of toxins.

I happen to brelieve it is natural for mamals like us to eat fruits and spread the seeds.

[avalon]

I believe it's natural to eat fruits and spread seeds also. But, some people I know have developed over time problems with certain food-stuffs, one example is blueberries(a munch food). I have no trouble with blueberries. But she can't eat them without reaction. So, we are all different. We react differently, we sound different, look different, like different things. Maybe there are supposed to be two opposites- Vegetarians and meat eaters- then of course the middle ground.

I'll say one thing. I have not had any chicken, beef or pork meat for a very long time. I have recently purchased some frozen (dirty protein) grass-fed labeled beef locally, which I will eat with yolks on Sunday. In this respect I listened to something, my body the cosmos, my history with beef... but more importantly, I make my cat raw chicken and beef meals, and I think hey, if he can eat meat, why can't I? And somehow I think a higher being might say to me when I'm gone "Why didn't you just eat it."

Then I think, we may be the only creatures alive- (may, for mystery) that feels guilt over the killing of eating of these living beings. The question of 'do we have the right' is a big one. It may be one of the biggest questions of all time. It's easy to follow for some. Many of our greatest minds, though perhaps not, fully vegetarian or fruitarian, still have felt if poissible, would be ideal.

Perhaps it isn't possible to be fully fruitarian, vegan. Maybe the compromise is to do as the Hunza and eat meat every week or longer. I don't know. But it still may be one of the deepest reasonings of mankind. That life feeds on life. When we do find a way, if not already, it will be a big deal.

Best wishes,
Avalon

[Terence]

In the original habitat of Homo erectus, there was.
Most places of this world are not meant for us to live.

RRM, I would like to believe this but there is no evidence. Please give me some references.
Anthropological research shows that humans have been heavy meat eaters for thousands of years.
Furthermore the original wild fruits were highly inedible.
Many years of selective breeding were required.

Our life is highly 'modified', so whats wrong about including our natural food in that?

Yes, our life is highly 'artificial' and I have no doubt that we are destroying Earth faster than ever. It isn´t clear that fruits are our natural food. Most likely this idea is an illusion. As I mentioned I have been a fruitarian many years ago. So, you know my former beliefs. These beliefs let me go tropical regions of Asia. I wanted to live the fruit dream. It ended in a personal disaster in every aspect.

Terence

[Terence]

Terrence,

Why does it have to be natural? I look at my body as a biochemical machine and am looking for the best way to fuel it. The waidiet gives us addequate nutrition with the least amount of toxins.

I happen to brelieve it is natural for mamals like us to eat fruits and spread the seeds.

I thought this, too. But there is too much evidence against this idea. It begins with our teeth. Most fruitarians lose their teeth. My own experience tells me that meat strengthen my teeth and gums whereas fruits make my teeth yellow and my gums spongy. Sugar in high amounts can also be a 'toxin' regarding your pancreas. Furthermore insulin is one of the major promoter of cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

So, if you want make fruit your main food source, the best thing is to make insulin responses as small as possible, as RRM teaches here. Nevertheless I expect problems in the long-run. Especially in people like me who are usually not very active physically due to our 'artificial' life.

Terence

[Oscar]

Anthropological research shows that humans have been heavy meat eaters for thousands of years.

We all know that humans have been heavy grain eaters for thousands of years, so what does that prove? Besides, the research might show something, but prove they cannot. It is impossible to prove humans ate food which doesn't leave any trace afterwards.
Looking at our digestive tract and teeth morphology, we are not carnivores.

Furthermore the original wild fruits were highly inedible.

How do you know? And what do you call 'original'?

[Terence]

We all know that humans have been heavy grain eaters for thousands of years, so what does that prove? Besides, the research might show something, but prove they cannot. It is impossible to prove humans ate food which doesn't leave any trace afterwards.
Looking at our digestive tract and teeth morphology, we are not carnivores.

Yes, humans have been grain eaters for round about 10.000 years. And we know that grain eating causes problems, like dairy.

I have to correct me. Humans have not eaten meat for thousands of years, but for millions of years. That simply shows that we are able to eat meat and survived on meat. In most regions there were no fruits, but wild animals and humans. Humans lived on more than 95% animal food.

Looking at my teeth and gums today I can tell you that fruits are not good for me. My teeth and digestive tract work perfectly with raw meat. Fruits damage my teeth, my gums, my brain, my sex life etc. My experience is real, your thoughts about teeth morphology are just theory. I know what you mean and believe me, I sympathized with your thoughts a lot some years ago. It LOOKS like we a frugivores but real experience shows that we are not. Too be honest, I needed a lot of time to realize this while travelling through fruit rich areas in Asia. Without animal food and oils (which are very new in our history) you would get serious problems very fast, at the latest after 2 years. How could we explain this if we were frugivores? And I think you agree with me (and Wai) that we can´t eat raw vegetables and grass. So, actually, there only two appropriate food groups for us: Meat and fruits. (olives, avocados and coconuts are fruits, too) And nuts cause problems if eaten in considerable amounts.

One very interesting book abot this issue is "Meat-Eating and Human Evolution" from Craig B. Stanford and Henry T. Bunn, Oxford University Press.

Please show me areas on our planet that are full of fruits without human activity, that means selective breading, cutting trees, artificial irrigation etc. The banana you can buy today in every supermarket has not been available in more than 98% of our living-timeline.

Please read special books about selective breeding and fruits. There you can find many information about the 'original' fruits. For example: 150 years, which is nothing, even a cucumber was not edible. It was too bitter to eat.

Terence

[avalon]

This is very interesting, if not a little worriesome.

Oscar wrote:

Besides, the research might show something, but prove they cannot. It is impossible to prove humans ate food which doesn't leave any trace afterwards.
Looking at our digestive tract and teeth morphology, we are not carnivores.

Actually, and I'll have to search for the link, not too long ago they found a site that had been underwater and did leave evidence of 'untraceable food'. I don't remember the specifics- tubers or which veggies or fruit, but I did save the page in a file.

Terence wrote:

The banana you can buy today in every supermarket has not been available in more than 98% of our living-timeline.

Really? Cucumbers? Stuff to think about.

[avo]

Humans have not eaten meat for thousands of years, but for millions of years.

Could you cite that claim?

That simply shows that we are able to eat meat and survived on meat. In most regions there were no fruits, but wild animals and humans. Humans lived on more than 95% animal food.

This simply shows that humans can survive on many things. Including grains and dairy. But not everything that we can survive on is ideal. That is why it is called 'survival,' one must make best with what they can get, up to and including cannibalism when stranded in a desolate location. Ideal? Far from it...

Looking at my teeth and gums today I can tell you that fruits are not good for me.

You did not eat right. You cannot simply eat fruit like you eat meat. You must listen to your body, an act that you have proven you have no knowledge of preforming correctly. Want a hint on how to do it right? Read the Wai articles.

Too be honest, I needed a lot of time to realize this while travelling through fruit rich areas in Asia.

Yes, fruit is so difficult to find. Just as hard as a butcher shop.

Without animal food and oils (which are very new in our history) you would get serious problems very fast, at the latest after 2 years. How could we explain this if we were frugivores? And I think you agree with me (and Wai) that we can´t eat raw vegetables and grass. So, actually, there only two appropriate food groups for us: Meat and fruits. (olives, avocados and coconuts are fruits, too) And nuts cause problems if eaten in considerable amounts.

Obviously, without lard and pre-cut sections of meat, you would get serious problems very fast. How else would you get zero carbs and 40-50 grams protein?

One very interesting book abot this issue is "Meat-Eating and Human Evolution" from Craig B. Stanford and Henry T. Bunn, Oxford University Press.

I'm sure it is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Please show me areas on our planet that are full of fruits without human activity, that means selective breading, cutting trees, artificial irrigation etc. The banana you can buy today in every supermarket has not been available in more than 98% of our living-timeline.

Show me where prepared lard and sliced meat was available without human intervention? I really love your logic.

Please read special books about selective breeding and fruits. There you can find many information about the 'original' fruits. For example: 150 years, which is nothing, even a cucumber was not edible. It was too bitter to eat.

Small game animals that you 'might' have a chance of catching, such as hurt otters, hedgehogs, injured birds, dead rabbits and chipmunks, are not very edible. Mostly bone, very lean and tough muscle. Not too mention the protein content of such animals is much higher than what you normally eat, those portions you get from the butcher shop. A few mouthfuls and you have met your 40-50g protein. What now? Look for avocados? No, that would be impossible, but if you did find them, make sure you wait 24 hours after that meat meal.

Also, how often are you likely to come across such prizes? Other animals have better hunting skills and senses that you, and will ultimately beat you to the finish line. Unless you feel like battling a wolf pack for its dinner, the best I could say is that you have mostly balls, some brawn, but not much brain.

avo

[Oscar]

I have to correct me. Humans have not eaten meat for thousands of years, but for millions of years. That simply shows that we are able to eat meat and survived on meat. In most regions there were no fruits, but wild animals and humans. Humans lived on more than 95% animal food.

Unfortunately just another theory.

... your thoughts about teeth morphology are just theory.

Interestingly enough, this is a widely accepted fact, and even scientists agree on this.

It LOOKS like we a frugivores but real experience shows that we are not. Too be honest, I needed a lot of time to realize this while travelling through fruit rich areas in Asia. Without animal food and oils (which are very new in our history) you would get serious problems very fast, at the latest after 2 years. How could we explain this if we were frugivores? And I think you agree with me (and Wai) that we can´t eat raw vegetables and grass. So, actually, there only two appropriate food groups for us: Meat and fruits. (olives, avocados and coconuts are fruits, too) And nuts cause problems if eaten in considerable amounts.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Frugivores eat both fruits and animal food. The Wai Diet is a frugivore diet.

Actually, and I'll have to search for the link, not too long ago they found a site that had been underwater and did leave evidence of 'untraceable food'. I don't remember the specifics- tubers or which veggies or fruit, but I did save the page in a file.

It'd be interesting to read, if you can find it. The results will not be of any significance though. We're talking millions of years here, so the findings of one specific site aren't really significant.