Kasper's thoughts

[panacea]

Yep, you're both rationalizing being non-wai 100%. You've found another guru to make you feel good about your choices, and it seems to me that Kasper has gut normalization already if I'm interpreting him right, even though he is eating bad foods occasionally (he says he has digestive problems, but if his stools are normal, then what digestive problems? your gut can be perfectly healthy and still overreact to bad substances in foods, if you haven't stayed away from them for long enough yet. This isn't a gut problem, it's a psychological problem of you not being able to stay away from allergens long enough). If you would eat right 100%, then your gut would heal to the point of being able to tolerate allergens. You have to totally remove the allergens first for 3+ weeks, not occasionally eat them and keep your body's immune system attacking them. Also, if your stools are normal Kasper, why are you still supplementing probiotics?

Taking probiotics doesn't cure candida, there's no evidence or logic for it that actually makes sense. All over the web it's again stated that it overcrowds candida, but that makes no sense to anyone who isn't reaching for a belief desperately because it also overcrowds other bacteria and it's only 14 strands out of hundreds. What we do know cures candida (or rather, puts it under control) is your own body when it's not under toxic load. Wai may not talk about candida specifically, because it's the wrong approach. Taking any kind of medicine or pill for one condition, whether it's a tumor or candida, doesn't work. Your body is more complicated than your narrow minded and futile approaches of controlling the extremely complex and undocumented microbiologic system of flora in your gut with pills of any kind. There's no logic in it, just a nice guru in a book telling you that it's healthy.

Again, you can find people doing better, getting healthier, etc (slowly) on just about any diet. I was under the impression you guys were using the GAPS book as a nice casual read, rather than making it more important than the wai diet. Unfortunately now you're on her program which will take years to recover apparently, as opposed to the 3 weeks or less on 100% wai + buteyko.

If you keep cheating, coming up with workarounds, excuses (yeah, you're eating chocolate for the minerals.. right, not to mention the french fries), then of course it's going to take forever and you'll probably fail.

@overkees
I know wai normalizes my stools because when I eat wai 100% (longest was for about 1.5 months) my stools completely normalize. I also go 100% wai for 3 days or a week at a time and it's like a roller coaster for me, my body gets light, extremely energetic, I can think clearly, and even when I'm sedentary my digestion works perfectly but then I feel that 'light' sensation in my stomach too long and smell some junk food and eventually cave in.

You guys seem to think that candida has some supreme hold over you and you can't get rid of it by eating right but I don't understand why, have you ever actually gone 100% for three weeks without doing something silly like drinking beer or eating french fries? Just because that book tells you that you need probiotics which she has affiliations to sell on her website doesn't mean that you should just accept it as truth!

And kasper, if your stools are small in size, frequent, no need to wipe (probiotics can cause a need to wipe, so to test this I'd get off of them for a while), and normal color then your body will heal on its own because digestion is normalized, which is the root of the problem.

[Kasper]

Taking probiotics doesn't cure candida, there's no evidence or logic for it that actually makes sense.

Let's consider one of those statements you're making...
I'm not saying this, overkees is not saying this, and natasha campbell-mcbride is certainly not saying this.
Probiotics are PART of the protocol designed to restore the gut flora.

We can talk for hours about the logic behind the gaps protocol, but as long as you didn't read this book, I'm not going to waste my time.
It's a complicated theory you won't understand without background. I can't explain this in a few sentences.
I'm quite sure you didn't read more than 10% of the gaps book, if you want to do a discussion do your homework first.

I'm not saying you have to take this book as truth, but it makes logical sense to me.
You may have the same experience if you read it.
Otherwise, throw it away, and do the wai diet, if that cures your candida and all your issues, perfect !
I'm sure for some people wai diet is all they need to get their health the way they want it.

But it doesn't for me.
Being 100% Wai doesn't improve my white tongue or stool in anyway.
I think it only becomes worse actually.

I have been I think about 2 months 100% Wai, no sups. But I've been much longer 99% Wai.
The difference between 100% and 99% Wai is not physical improvements, but mental improvements according to RRM.

When I began to do GAPS protocol, I see things improving.
And not only me, many people notice this.
Besides that, I read a lot of stories from persons that get cured from candida/ADD/dyslexia etc. etc. by GAPS.
I didn't read much here on the wai forum.

So I rather put my faith on something that have worked with other people in the past.
Instead of putting my faith on something some panacea claims will cure all my problems in 3 weeks, while I know even doing 8 weeks didn't give me improvements.

[dime]

I don't get it, why is it so important to not needing to wipe your ass and how does it imply that you have gut problems?
Is this something explained in that GAPS book, or some paper, or some web page?

[Kasper]

It's in the learning section of normalbreathing.com :

http://www.normalbreathing.com/digestiv ... E5fpFHRkuf

Edit: Woohoo, artour just finished his gut flora book. I'm interested !

[dime]

Transit time for me is more than 48 hours probably because I eat near zero grams of fiber. But I don't have constipation even though his table says so.
I don't have any stomach aches, pretty much no gas, and stomach is always absolutely flat.

The key for no constipation and good gut health for me (in no particular order): no fiber, no dairy (not even raw grass-fed butter), no bananas, no dark chocolate, no grains.
Seeds and nuts suck too as they speed up transit time causing mild diarrhea. Lately I'm eating raw pumpkin seeds, if I didn't I'm pretty sure I wouldn't need more than one wiping.

[panacea]

Let's consider one of those statements you're making...
I'm not saying this, overkees is not saying this, and natasha campbell-mcbride is certainly not saying this.
Probiotics are PART of the protocol designed to restore the gut flora

What logic and evidence supports this theory that it's partially effective at curing candida, restoring natural gut flora, etc. No where in the book is there any logic or reason that 14 strands of bacteria will 'balance' anything, or restore anything. The only support for this practice, is that it has been noted, by the author to sometimes help GAPS patients recover. That's great, so I'm guessing there was a way to measure and record the scenario so that was the only new thing introduced, and that it wasn't because of a change in their diet or lifestyle? Yeah right.

As I said before, you can take a trip to curezone and find people having success from EVERYTHING. People take baking soda, every medical drug under the sun, and have success with candida or every ailment under the sun. Our bodies have a remarkable ability to heal themselves depending on many factors, if you are doing 9 things right and 1 thing wrong, it doesn't mean a 10 thing protocol is the best, or that you should follow all 10 things just because it completes the protocol which some people have 'slow' success on over years of duration!

Furthermore, about the 100% wai diet, just eating wai isn't the only factor. if you gulp fruits without chewing THOROUGHLY, and don't eat all small meals, of course you are going to hurt the gut. Did you go for 8 weeks while on buteyko, chewing, not eating pure sugar, etc? From what you said, you mention that when you eat tons of fruit you get white tongue and soft stools. This is a clear sign of indigestion because you didn't chew well enough or you ate too much, it could even be as simple as you eating too many UNRIPE fruits that you thought were ripe, or consuming a lot of pesticides in the case of store-bought berries, even some organic ones have workarounds in the process which still have pesticides in them somehow. There are many 'gotchas' on Wai 100%, and it's hard, but it doesn't mean pills are the answer!

By the way, I read the book, disregarding the recipe section. It had a lot of interesting information, but it's definitely not that unique compared to other diet books. A lot of them recommend some slightly modified diet from years ago, and some supplements like probiotics.

By the way, the absolute best diet as told by the GAPS book is one of ripe fruit juices and animal foods like egg yolks with oils, which she reccomends olive oil as the best or avocados in its place! Which is the strict, best version of Wai Diet except we add raw fish instead of boiling it. I'm starting to question whether you really read this book.

On that note, it's extremely annoying to act like someone has to read your favorite books in order to know what they're talking about. It's like someone who believes in Islam telling you to read their religious book and until you read the whole thing, then you can't say anything in it isn't true! Well the fact is no one can read all the books in the world. Just because you think a particular book is important, means nothing to anyone but you. If there are logical and sound ideas in a book, you will be able to talk about them, if not, then you don't understand those ideas and are simply telling people to read books, which is useless. I happened to read this book though.

Natasha, by the way, states in her book that fats in high-medium amounts are particularly disasterful for many people with GAPS because their impaired gut can't use them. They end up feeding the problem down the line. Did you read this book, you should read it again /sarcasm (see how annoying it is, when you don't have 100% memory recall, so people assume you didn't read the book and then tell you to?)

I avoid all the ingredients in supplements natasha see as problematic for gaps patients.

Well, that's impossible. Natasha states that supplements can be problematic for some gaps patients and not for others. Any supplement, according to her, could be problematic for one person and not for another person. So unless you are taking zero supplements, you're incorrect.

So I rather put my faith on something that have worked with other people in the past.

Lol, every single diet in history meets that criteria.

[overkees]

You don't have proof that the wai diet is a total gut restorer, you don't even have proof that the wai diet is the real optimal diet. You might really have a strong belief in this fact but it is certainly not natural in that we eat fruits all year round, and food always was rather scarce. So, I think fasting and food restriction at times is a smart move to do for example. And I also believe that if you feel vey energy drained if you haven't consumed fruits for 2 hours then that indicates that you're certainly not healthy. I can go easy for 2 days without eating anything and still feeling energetic. Now that is a thing that buteyko did to me, and I had extreme hard time to adapt to feeling the energy in the begin of wai. With ALOT of mood swings. Also being wai 100% at times for a few weeks haven't solved anything for me regarding all my symptoms. Maybe a little less sleep than I would normally have and a bit more concentration, but compared to buteyko these results are marginal.
There are also a lot of other questions that can be raised whether wai diet really is the way to go for everyone. You seem to have the ultimate conviction that is, but I don't share that view anymore. So don't act like you're mr know it all when it comes to health there can be so much more things you haven't even thought about or can't see at the moment. I don't pretend I know all the answers but what I can do is experiment and see what works best for me to get rid of my symptoms. EVERY person is different.

I must also add that Oscar admitted that, after being 100% wai for a LOOOOONG time still has very soft stools at times and still needs to whipe his ass regularly. RRM still has not answered these questions, I'm hoping that he eventually will because I think with his lifestyle is a very healthy person.

What works for you may not work for others. So the biokult works for me and therefore I think that it really helps with restoring the gut for me. That's the thing, you try things and things don't work, you try another thing and that works, so the conclusion is that for me wai is definetely not the way to go and that being on my current diet makes everything easier and is REALLY helping me with the sleep.

Also: I don't like the taste of chocolate, certainly not of 90%, have you taste it? It is really strong and dry, but I looked at the nutrient database for dark chocolate and see how much minerals it has, that was what convinced me to be sure to never have to little minerals (recommended by buteyko and wai diet doesn't give me enough zinc and magnesium, to very important minerals which if I supplement it I can always notice a change in my symptoms). By saying things like: "yeah right, you only eat it because of the "nutrients" " is just not true and even childish. That might be how you excuse yourself for eating "junk food'. I also don't believe chocolate causes imbalances in the gut, because I did not notice this effect. In fact it's going quite steady at the moment, certainly not where I want to be but it's improving. But you can't pretend that you know my way of thinking, so please leave these kind of non arguments behind and focus on the things that matter.

And panacea, please answer these: Did you have only the good stools when on wai so strict or did also had no need to whipe your ass? Because I can't make this up from your posts so I want to see it explicity. And the coating on your tongue, has it ever dissapeared for more than a few days on wai 100%?
Mine hasn't for more than 2 days. And I mean, no coating means a really really really pink tongue, like a baby tongue.

[RRM]

In that sense, there is no difference between food and supplements, they both may imbalance a person. And they both may improve health.

The biggest difference between diet and supplements, is that we did not evolve on supplements.
Supplements are extremely concentrated. From diet, the body can take what it wants, by increasing or decreasing absorption rates accordingly.
Supplementing your body is trying to enforce an increase of something.
Everything in your body is delicatedly balanced.
An increase in sugar intake beyond your energy needs, will make you fatter.
An increase in vitamins, minerals or trace elements beyond your actual needs,
may imbalance multiple metabolisms,
as they (contrary to sugar) are multipurpose and very much intertwined.

More than you need is not better, but imbalancing.
Diet enables your body to find its balance.
Supplementing (on top of your diet) may be forcing your body into imbalance,
unless there is a proven lack of a specific nutrient in your blood, counteracted by taking only that nutrient (in moderation). Of course its always better to try to get more of that nutrient by adapting your diet.
It should also be taken into account that your body sometimes willingly (temporarily) decreases the level of specific nutrients, in order to be more effective in fighting a specific ailment.

Oscar admitted that, after being 100% wai for a LOOOOONG time still has very soft stools at times and still needs to whipe his ass regularly. RRM still has not answered these questions

Im always wiping my ass (both wet and dry), as i find it disgusting when you dont, regardless of the consistency of your stool.
The consistency of my stool is generally perfect, though thawing frozen salmon may render too much bacteria, so that sometimes my stool is a bit softer (because the bowels prioritise getting rid of excess bacteria as soon as possible over extracting as much water required for optimum stool consistency).
The notion that this will indicate less than optimum health is a bit ridiculous imo.

And the coating on your tongue, has it ever dissapeared for more than a few days on wai 100%?

There is no coating, ever. Its always perfectly pink, and i consume A LOT of sugar.

Also being wai 100% at times for a few weeks haven't solved anything for me regarding all my symptoms.
... wai is definetely not the way to go

A few weeks is a bit short...
I know its not easy, but just try to be on 100% Wai for a few months straight, without any supplements, drugs etc.
That may vindicate a justified verdict...

[overkees]

Of course I do whipe my ass always, just to make sure that I don't need to whipe it again. I don't want any misunderstandings and find it strange that you misinterpreted it, ha!

But as you describe it, that sounds like a really healthy gut. Did this change very slowly on wai or didn't you have a lot of problems with these kind of things before wai?

[Oscar]

I must also add that Oscar admitted that, after being 100% wai for a LOOOOONG time still has very soft stools at times and still needs to whipe his ass regularly.

The soft stool only happens after I eat old egg yolks or old fish, and only when they are pretty bad/suspicious. Like RRM I always wipe, but whether or not that would've been needed per se, remains a question.

[RRM]

that sounds like a really healthy gut. Did this change very slowly on wai or didn't you have a lot of problems with these kind of things before wai?

Hmm, i honestly dont remember what my stool was like back then,
im guessing that means the absence of any issues.

[panacea]

So can we get a clear answer Oscar and RRM, I mean we know you both wipe to maintain hygiene standards and not be gross, but is there actually any soiling effect (staining on the paper)?

And yeah, of course it's natural to have diarrhea if you ingest something bad and are healthy enough that your gut goes into high gear and expels it out. People get really bad food poisoning because their gut isn't healthy and can't cause diarrhea, so it just sits in there and makes them sick for a lot longer.

[overkees]

Yes, we want numbers, then we can be sure indeed . On average, how many whipes do you need to make sure you don't have to make another whipe.

And panacea, maybe you know this: even if you have diarrhea when you have a perfect gut, should there still no soiling effect? Maybe some wetness, but soiling?

[Kasper]

And panacea, maybe you know this: even if you have diarrhea when you have a perfect gut, should there still no soiling effect? Maybe some wetness, but soiling?

I've said this before I guess.
But this has happened with me a lot of times at over 50 s CP.
The combination of diarrhea and no soiling.
I don't understand how this is possible. But is is true.

[Kasper]

Guys. I don't want to be rude or anything.
But you guys are spamming MY diary about MY thoughts.
:)

Maybe we can make a topic about the soiling effect somewhere else.
Because I almost find it inappropriate to put down my thoughts here.

Thougths:
oversensitive people --> trying to avoid pain --> gaming/internet/sleeping/drugs/food etc.

In some sense, wai is based on that if you are free of addictive substances in your diet you eat what you need.
Problem!
Oversensitive people will find other ways to avoid pain --> Gaming/internet for example.
In that sense, 100% wai diet only works if you are free of all the things that hide pain. Not only the things in your diet.