Many people incorrectly assume that an empty-mind is a calm-mind.
And that a full mind is a messy-stressed-mind.
That the solution to a messy-stressed-mind, is to meditate-et,al. and focus on being less-and-less-stress-emptying-the-mind.
I disagree.
Calm + Full mind
Stress + Full mind
Calm + Empty mind
Stress + Empty mind
Calm + Thinking mind
Stress + Thinking mind
Calm + Non-thinking mind
Stress + Non-thinking mind
Calm + Thinking + Full mind
Stress + Thinking + Full mind
Calm + Thinking + Empty mind
Stress + Thinking + Empty mind
Calm + Non-thinking + Full mind...
See different, adjectives.
Mindfulness-Meditation-et,al. Bye bye, it is a garbage idea! { I suspect Vipassana (spelling?) might be one of those things too. Though I clearly know it is not my cup of tea.}
"Meditation" debate
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Aytundra
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"Meditation" debate
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
"Meditation" debate
You clearly did not meditate. If you had meditate successfully, even for 0.1 second, you could see that it is actually a 'calm mind'. I mean, I bet you were trying to not thinking and doing that is actually thinking. Also, counter-attack you thought process is just the opposite of meditation. The mind is very tricky. When you think "ok, this is meditation", you're actually not meditating and not thinking at all. It is really hard to have an empty mind, because a thought always comes up. There's always this voice in your head speaking. If you start paying attention to it, you will notice that it never shut up. You may say that you were meditating for 1, 2 or 3 hours, but maybe you were just stressed for 1, 2 or 3 hours straight trying to meditate and not thinking. And, of course, your conclusion: meditation does not bring calmness.Aytundra wrote:* Many people incorrectly assume that an empty-mind is a calm-mind.
And that a full mind is a messy-stressed-mind.
That the solution to a messy-stressed-mind, is to meditate-et,al. and focus on being less-and-less-stress-emptying-the-mind.
I disagree.
Calm + Full mind
Stress + Full mind
Calm + Empty mind
Stress + Empty mind
Calm + Thinking mind
Stress + Thinking mind
Calm + Non-thinking mind
Stress + Non-thinking mind
Calm + Thinking + Full mind
Stress + Thinking + Full mind
Calm + Thinking + Empty mind
Stress + Thinking + Empty mind
Calm + Non-thinking + Full mind...
See different, adjectives.
Mindfulness-Meditation-et,al. Bye bye, it is a garbage idea! { I suspect Vipassana (spelling?) might be one of those things too. Though I clearly know it is not my cup of tea.}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTFDfR47dl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0BWV5TPPHY
I bet you can't disagree that those two videos describes how your thought process is every single day.
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
I was in class on Monday.
The professor thought it was a good idea to start the class with meditation for like 10 minutes. { Off topic: meditation is so close in spelling to medication, a difference of "c" and "t" both blue letters, are enough to make me dislike that word. If she told the class less sit quietly for 10 minutes to reduce stress levels, I would be more accepting, but I don't comprehend how the first class and the first 10 minutes are stressful, if she told us to sit quietly for 10 min right before exam week, yeah I might get that. But to say meditation, my mind already goes off into bias of I don't like meditation. Both meditation and medication has 1 thing in common, it applies external force, external control, in efforts to help a subject assuming the subject lacks something or possesses a problem.
Meditation assumes that the subject possesses a stressful full mind.
Medication assumes that the subject possesses a physical problem treatable by pharmaceuticals.
{I really like that quote around the forum that RRM wrote "Taking medication does not make a healthy person healthier."}
In that scenario prior to meditation, I was open minded to that class.
After meditation with the professor going on and on and on about "focus on your chest, focus on the breathing, if you feel your mind wander bring it back to your breath, sit in a relax position, you can rest your hands on your laps, you can close your eyes... focus on your breathing, don't let your mind wander"
This is insanity for like 10 min.
Basically, the more you tell a mind not to do something the more it will want to do it, you have created the Marshmellow-Self-Regulation problem.
The more you are irritated verbally not to reach for that Marshmellow on the table, the more it depletes Will-Power, Self-Regulation energy.
So starting off class with 10 min of meditation basically exhausts my mind energy levels.
And when I feel irritated and brain energy is zapped by reasoning every way to oppose a meditation session, I basically exhausted energy I could have spent day dreaming happy thoughts.
To be told "I know students are stressed, these are methods to reduce stress... everyone has their own situations..., it is important to reflect on ... to share ideas on... to share experiences on..." it becomes an earful; That becomes problematic, that is NAGGING, that is not a marshmellow, it is a mouse-trap on the table, except most classmates don't seem to understand my perspective.
To end the meditation session with ringing a metal bell three times. I can only say theses words " I am not Pavlov's dogs.".
The professor thought it was a good idea to start the class with meditation for like 10 minutes. { Off topic: meditation is so close in spelling to medication, a difference of "c" and "t" both blue letters, are enough to make me dislike that word. If she told the class less sit quietly for 10 minutes to reduce stress levels, I would be more accepting, but I don't comprehend how the first class and the first 10 minutes are stressful, if she told us to sit quietly for 10 min right before exam week, yeah I might get that. But to say meditation, my mind already goes off into bias of I don't like meditation. Both meditation and medication has 1 thing in common, it applies external force, external control, in efforts to help a subject assuming the subject lacks something or possesses a problem.
Meditation assumes that the subject possesses a stressful full mind.
Medication assumes that the subject possesses a physical problem treatable by pharmaceuticals.
{I really like that quote around the forum that RRM wrote "Taking medication does not make a healthy person healthier."}
In that scenario prior to meditation, I was open minded to that class.
After meditation with the professor going on and on and on about "focus on your chest, focus on the breathing, if you feel your mind wander bring it back to your breath, sit in a relax position, you can rest your hands on your laps, you can close your eyes... focus on your breathing, don't let your mind wander"
This is insanity for like 10 min.
Basically, the more you tell a mind not to do something the more it will want to do it, you have created the Marshmellow-Self-Regulation problem.
The more you are irritated verbally not to reach for that Marshmellow on the table, the more it depletes Will-Power, Self-Regulation energy.
So starting off class with 10 min of meditation basically exhausts my mind energy levels.
And when I feel irritated and brain energy is zapped by reasoning every way to oppose a meditation session, I basically exhausted energy I could have spent day dreaming happy thoughts.
To be told "I know students are stressed, these are methods to reduce stress... everyone has their own situations..., it is important to reflect on ... to share ideas on... to share experiences on..." it becomes an earful; That becomes problematic, that is NAGGING, that is not a marshmellow, it is a mouse-trap on the table, except most classmates don't seem to understand my perspective.
To end the meditation session with ringing a metal bell three times. I can only say theses words " I am not Pavlov's dogs.".
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
ok, I found that exact quote:
When your mind is healthy, you are not suppose to take meditation to stay healthy.
Being healthy is about minimizing the intake of bad thoughts, which includes a (non-thinking) non-reasoning mind.
I fail to understand how "not thinking" is a good idea to practice.
Using that quote as a template:RRM wrote:When you are healthy, you are not supposed to take drugs to stay healthy.
Being healthy is about minimizing the intake of bad stuff, which includes (plant based) alkaloids.
[viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3726&p=42458&hilit=healthy#p42458
When your mind is healthy, you are not suppose to take meditation to stay healthy.
Being healthy is about minimizing the intake of bad thoughts, which includes a (non-thinking) non-reasoning mind.
I fail to understand how "not thinking" is a good idea to practice.
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
getting so irritated from just a bit of meditation doesnt seem healthy to me....
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
First of all, you connotate meditation as negative thing and even compare to the word medication. So, both your mind and body immediately turn in an offensive and repulsive state. If you look at both words, they are just merely words, letters together. But how you see and judge them depends only from you. Some see as good thing, but apparently you interpret as bad thing.
And it is exactly what Kasper said.
You are assuming that you are healthy or that you have a healthy mind... But are you? Reading your reaction, does it seem healthy? Of course it also depends on what is your concept of "being healthy". Maybe you will say that you are perfectly healthy on mind and spirit. But you should ask yourself what is exactly to have a healthy mind... And you may have a concept for it and if it complete suits to you, the better, the more you feel "healthy", the more your ego likes it. However, if you then look closely to your concept , you can see once again that are merely words that you identify with them and that they create to you either a good or a bad feeling.
And it is exactly what Kasper said.
You are assuming that you are healthy or that you have a healthy mind... But are you? Reading your reaction, does it seem healthy? Of course it also depends on what is your concept of "being healthy". Maybe you will say that you are perfectly healthy on mind and spirit. But you should ask yourself what is exactly to have a healthy mind... And you may have a concept for it and if it complete suits to you, the better, the more you feel "healthy", the more your ego likes it. However, if you then look closely to your concept , you can see once again that are merely words that you identify with them and that they create to you either a good or a bad feeling.
Seriously, look at all that negativity. You may say that you were mind open, but you completely weren't." I am not Pavlov's dogs.".
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
A Bell ringing precipitates my self-awareness on my tinnitus.
The pattern of Bell ringing alludes to Buddhism, I currently dislike buddhism because it makes me think of shaven haired people.
Flat bell ringing pattern also alludes to religious ceremony on endings. I don't like to ponder about endings.
Breathing without any other focus, except for sitting still, makes me think of sick people.
Meditation is absolutely not for me at this time frame.
The course has nothing to do with meditation.
It just happens that the professor enjoys meditation so much, that she wants to subject the whole class to it every class.
I will have to sit stoney stoically in class or risk breaking down emotionally in a rainstorm in class for the next dozen weeks.
And no, no amounts of meditation can make me not be emotional once I lose control over my calm.
---
I want glob mod rights, I want to delete the last 5 or 6 posts on topics of meditation from my diary. It is absolutely irritating.
The pattern of Bell ringing alludes to Buddhism, I currently dislike buddhism because it makes me think of shaven haired people.
Flat bell ringing pattern also alludes to religious ceremony on endings. I don't like to ponder about endings.
Breathing without any other focus, except for sitting still, makes me think of sick people.
Meditation is absolutely not for me at this time frame.
The course has nothing to do with meditation.
It just happens that the professor enjoys meditation so much, that she wants to subject the whole class to it every class.
I will have to sit stoney stoically in class or risk breaking down emotionally in a rainstorm in class for the next dozen weeks.
And no, no amounts of meditation can make me not be emotional once I lose control over my calm.
---
I want glob mod rights, I want to delete the last 5 or 6 posts on topics of meditation from my diary. It is absolutely irritating.
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
Usually, your mind wants to be in control of everything, that's the 'normal' state of your mind. The moment you stop thinking, you loss control of things, you become insecure and that's why you probably felt uneasy. Stop thinking made you feel uncomfortable, because you are not used to it, so it may sounded an hindrance for you. However, when start looking attentive to your thoughts, sooner or later you'll realize that 90 or more per cent of our thoughts are completely useless and actually only makes you anxious and worried. For example, I can be here imagining how my future is going to be after finishing my course, where I am going to be, what I am going to do... One hour straight thinking about this, on this dreamless state. But what is the utility of this in the end? Probably none. I spend one hour of my life thinking about my future, being stressed unnecessarily, but the next day I just won the lottery, or something bad happened, and in fact, I will be leaving college. You see?I fail to understand how "not thinking" is a good idea to practice.
What I want to say with this is that when you think that thinking brings you calm and peace, it actually only stresses and makes you mad all the time.
You reaction only shows your mad mind completely attacking the state of not thinking, because the insecure, fearful thinking mind doesn't want that.
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
Breathing without any other focus, makes you focus on sick people? Then you are focussing on more than just breathing!Breathing without any other focus, except for sitting still, makes me think of sick people.
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
Let me put it this way.
I recorded my sleep time daily in my diary here since last year.
I learned in March 2016 that I average 10 hours of sleep naturally.
Going to work early in March 2015 made me lose sleep, sometimes I slept 8 hours.
I was surprised to read in a textbook, that children sleep like 10 hours too.
I truly believe that one can be self aware of each person's range of needs.
Such that careful planning to meet these needs will avoid the "stress" aspect of living.
And that band-aids and tissue-paper, like meditation to counter "work/school/human-interaction-stress" is not needed.
I am getting better and better at guessing what my plate and cup sizes are.
I know that at a buffet I should not take more food than what my plate and cup can hold.
Professors, employers, family members, environments, even yourself (if you don't survey yourself) don't understand your plate and cup size.
They hold a pitcher of water and offer to give you water and then everything spills out of the cup because they pour too much.
That is stress.
No amounts of paper-napkins and tissue-paper can reverse a spill.
Maslow's hierarchy of need is a nice model.
It however lacks at least 2 aspects.
1) Sleep Battery Recharge Time {I know mine is 10, and less time if I am lucky.}
2) Activity Length Time {I know I can last a certain amount of minutes or hours for specific activities, beyond that I get tired.}
When these "Time" cups and plates are used well, my day runs smoothly, if demands on these "Time" plates and cups are filled beyond what I can manage, I get stressed.
The professor said that "When I feel stressed, meditation helps me. I was so overwhelmed with work one year I forgot self-care.".
[Secretly, In my head, I never told the prof, I was thinking, okay, if meditation helps you, great, but the mistake you made from the beginning was not knowing the volumes of of your plates and cups, that is why you got into a "stress-mode". I however sitting in your class, am very much aware of myself. And I don't need any paper-napkins or tissue-paper next to my plates and cups, you are only adding clutter to my table. And a cluttered table is also prone to a mess because i can't reach for my plates and cups from the heaps of scrunched up balls of tissue paper all around me, I cannot see my plate and cup, now if I reach blindly past this snow fort of tissue-paper balls, I will likely spill my cup in that process, and then I would really be in a mess.]
I recorded my sleep time daily in my diary here since last year.
I learned in March 2016 that I average 10 hours of sleep naturally.
Going to work early in March 2015 made me lose sleep, sometimes I slept 8 hours.
I was surprised to read in a textbook, that children sleep like 10 hours too.
I truly believe that one can be self aware of each person's range of needs.
Such that careful planning to meet these needs will avoid the "stress" aspect of living.
And that band-aids and tissue-paper, like meditation to counter "work/school/human-interaction-stress" is not needed.
I am getting better and better at guessing what my plate and cup sizes are.
I know that at a buffet I should not take more food than what my plate and cup can hold.
Professors, employers, family members, environments, even yourself (if you don't survey yourself) don't understand your plate and cup size.
They hold a pitcher of water and offer to give you water and then everything spills out of the cup because they pour too much.
That is stress.
No amounts of paper-napkins and tissue-paper can reverse a spill.
Maslow's hierarchy of need is a nice model.
It however lacks at least 2 aspects.
1) Sleep Battery Recharge Time {I know mine is 10, and less time if I am lucky.}
2) Activity Length Time {I know I can last a certain amount of minutes or hours for specific activities, beyond that I get tired.}
When these "Time" cups and plates are used well, my day runs smoothly, if demands on these "Time" plates and cups are filled beyond what I can manage, I get stressed.
The professor said that "When I feel stressed, meditation helps me. I was so overwhelmed with work one year I forgot self-care.".
[Secretly, In my head, I never told the prof, I was thinking, okay, if meditation helps you, great, but the mistake you made from the beginning was not knowing the volumes of of your plates and cups, that is why you got into a "stress-mode". I however sitting in your class, am very much aware of myself. And I don't need any paper-napkins or tissue-paper next to my plates and cups, you are only adding clutter to my table. And a cluttered table is also prone to a mess because i can't reach for my plates and cups from the heaps of scrunched up balls of tissue paper all around me, I cannot see my plate and cup, now if I reach blindly past this snow fort of tissue-paper balls, I will likely spill my cup in that process, and then I would really be in a mess.]
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
Circumstances in the last year has not made anything easier for me.Kasper wrote:Breathing without any other focus, makes you focus on sick people? Then you are focussing on more than just breathing!Breathing without any other focus, except for sitting still, makes me think of sick people.
My grandma, the first person I know in my life personally, passed away in October.
I never really understood how someone that you once could know, can never be seen again.
She died of a respiratory infection.
I had 2 bad dreams that day prior to her death, one of them chest related.
I mean everything can be coincidence.
I am agnostic to spiritual ideas or things.
Though I am quite reasonable...
I can not completely disregard ...
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
Hmm, and what's the problem of shaven haired people? Let me guess, it reminds you sick people?The pattern of Bell ringing alludes to Buddhism, I currently dislike buddhism because it makes me think of shaven haired people
So basically, since it reminds you of a series of bad events, you immediately conclude it's useless and futile. Can't you see how influenced your thinking pattern is? You immediately are taking things as bad because you experienced them as bad. And, in fact, it seems what made you feel bad wasn't meditation at all! It actually were all those negative thoughts it came to your mind and the things that you identify them as being bad. And then, that made you conclude and experience mediation as bad.Aytundra wrote:Circumstances in the last year has not made anything easier for me.Kasper wrote:Breathing without any other focus, makes you focus on sick people? Then you are focussing on more than just breathing!Breathing without any other focus, except for sitting still, makes me think of sick people.
My grandma, the first person I know in my life personally, passed away in October.
I never really understood how someone that you once could know, can never be seen again.
She died of a respiratory infection.
I had 2 bad dreams that day prior to her death, one of them chest related.
I mean everything can be coincidence.
I am agnostic to spiritual ideas or things.
Though I am quite reasonable...
I can not completely disregard ...
Look at all you wrote. There's even feelings of sadness. Was it meditation? No. As Kasper said, if you really were concentrated on breathing, you surely hadn't written all those 'negative' things.
"Meditation" debate
And if you are so sure of what's the best for you, I don't understand why, when someone comes with other idea that you don't like nor agree, you have this need to argue, to defend yourself and even to criticize and make fun of it. For me, that by itself, only shows that you don't seem so secure after all. You doing that can make you feel and believe that you are on the upper hand, to make your ego more comfortable. However, that may not correspond to the truth. Here, for instance, you show that you are actually completely afraid of losing self control.
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
What do you want me to say?
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)
I think you are going off topic and imagining to many adjectives for me.Novidez wrote:And if you are so sure of what's the best for you, I don't understand why, when someone comes with other idea that you don't like nor agree, you have this need to argue, to defend yourself and even to criticize and make fun of it. For me, that by itself, only shows that you don't seem so secure after all. You doing that can make you feel and believe that you are on the upper hand, to make your ego more comfortable. However, that may not correspond to the truth. Here, for instance, you show that you are actually completely afraid of losing self control.
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!